Joe Biden Love Thread

[TheBig3]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

You don't have a plan so you don't get to make that criticism. But maybe get into labor organizing to build some actual power so you don't have to pretend incrementalism qualifies as a plan.

Oh a labor movement! Why didn't we think of that!

https://www.reuters.com/markets/comm...ll-2021-12-20/

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Bolded: if this isn't just you trolling (and you aren't known for that so I don't think it is) it comes across as monumentally selfish, man. You're pissed off so let everyone die? You'll stay inside while those around you pop off, and hope everything will be better when you come out? You may choose death but you're not entitled to choose it for everyone else. I have to say, I'm disappointed in you. I thought you had more moral fibre than that.

It's not.

The reason society is moving so far out of whack is that they've had it too easy for too long. The generation that built a Global Liberal Democracy survived the depression and World War 2. They knew what real threats were and they decided to never allow them to happen again. They marched to the polio vaccine lines.

This generation thinks that food and peace will always be there. There's no getting through to them. Have you talked to these morons? Look at these ****ing people - you try getting through to them.

Originally Posted by rubber soul

There have been third-party candidates in the past, most successfully, Theodore Roosevelt and his Bull Moose party in 1912. He didn't win but he did garner more votes and electoral votes than the Republican incumbent, William Howard Taft. Others who ran haven't been as successful, but a few have been able to influence the election for the eventual winner (Wallace for Nixon, Nader for Bush).

We have plenty of various political parties in the US, but the Dems and GOP have had a lock on the populace (mostly by raising money) for well over a hundred years now. I think people really want a Centrist party since neither party is willing to nominate someone closer to the center (say what you will about Biden, but, trust me, he does swing left). Unfortunately, the major parties have always found a way to keep the other parties out.

Would be interesting to see a Manchin or even a Romney run as an independent. Don't think either could win, but they could possibly make some noise, much like Ross Perot did in 1992. (And, to a lesser extent, 1996).

TR as a Third Party Candidate is a bit misleading. He had been President before. That's not a good test-case for a third party run. He also gave us, as a result of his run, Wilson as President, and that was a fairly miserable administration.

As Gore Vidal said - There are only two parties in the US. Jefferson and Hamilton. The People vs. Institutions. And no matter how you slice it - that's the end result. This moronic idea that "we need to end the duopoly!" is said by people who only read half the book. To offer some olive branch here, Vidal also believes there's only one political party in the US - The Corporate Party in which Democrats and Republicans are just wings of this party.

It will always be People vs. Institutions. There is no other option. And Centrism, to this end is just the very American practice of dividing up power. Three branches of government. 50 states. 12 national banks. Market, market, market.

There is no 3rd party. There will be no third party. Have you ever looked at the Green Partys foreign policy? It's unhinged. The Libertarians in general aren't a serious group - they might as well be the Hogwarts party.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Oh a labor movement! Why didn't we think of that!

https://www.reuters.com/markets/comm...ll-2021-12-20/

Yeah the labor movement has been decimated in this country and has little power. Building it back up again is going to take decades, but no amount of protest votes are going to make up for the working class' lack of organization.

If a bunch of Dem voters vote Republican or stay home the Democratic Party will just ignore the reasons why they lose elections and point to the bad things the Republicans are doing and/or might do and use that to fundraise while punching down on the left as the real reason why they lost. Come on, man, you know this.

It's not.

The reason society is moving so far out of whack is that they've had it too easy for too long. The generation that built a Global Liberal Democracy survived the depression and World War 2. They knew what real threats were and they decided to never allow them to happen again. They marched to the polio vaccine lines.

This generation thinks that food and peace will always be there. There's no getting through to them. Have you talked to these morons? Look at these ****ing people - you try getting through to them.

This is a right wing interpretation of history. "Hardship makes people hard and peace makes people soft."

It was the WW2 generation who made peace with the bosses and gave up their militancy and their workplace autonomy to get a social safety net and by the time the bosses started cutting pay and benefits and deindustrialization obliterated the blue collar middle class the workers had become too used to pensions and healthcare and conspicuous consumption to remember what it was like to fight Pinkertons in the streets.

They became what capitalism wanted them to be by the machinations of the US corporate oligarchy that gave them televisions to keep them docile.

The people aren't the source of the problem. Capitalism is.

As Gore Vidal said - There are only two parties in the US. Jefferson and Hamilton. The People vs. Institutions. And no matter how you slice it - that's the end result. This moronic idea that "we need to end the duopoly!" is said by people who only read half the book. To offer some olive branch here, Vidal also believes there's only one political party in the US - The Corporate Party in which Democrats and Republicans are just wings of this party.

It will always be People vs. Institutions. There is no other option. And Centrism, to this end is just the very American practice of dividing up power. Three branches of government. 50 states. 12 national banks. Market, market, market.

There is no 3rd party. There will be no third party. Have you ever looked at the Green Partys foreign policy? It's unhinged. The Libertarians in general aren't a serious group - they might as well be the Hogwarts party.

You know you started this whole series of rants attacking Biden and the Democratic Party but then immediately pivoted to screeds against the voters. If the voters have been made apathetic and nihilistic about the idea that the government, that exists now purely to facilitate capitalism, will ever do anything to help them then perhaps that's not the fault of the voters, slack-jawed though they may be. Perhaps it's the fault of the institution you claim is "vs." them and has worked long and hard to make sure they are apathetic and nihilistic and have no hope.

The Institution has won, and you can't fight back at them with the atrophied methods of civic engagement they've left you with. That would be like using the cap gun your parents gave you for Christmas to rob them at gunpoint.

[SGR]

Originally Posted by TheBig3

I don't know anything about crypto. But I'll buy some and give it to you if anyone here has a plan to do more than come up with insults.

[Frownland]

Education takes many forms. If you want to delude yourself into thinking your vote really matters then take your plan and vote for a third party that aligns with your beliefs instead of sending the message that one of the most popular parties in america has more support than they already do.

[Psy-Fi]

Trump says he's 'very appreciative' and 'surprised' Biden thanked previous administration for helping make the COVID vaccine available to the public

In regard to Biden's comment, Trump also told Fox News: 'I think it was a terrific thing, and I think it makes a lot of people happy.'

'I think he did something very good.'

'You know, it has to be a process of healing in this country, and that will help a lot.'

[Frownland]

Centrism is just code for capitulation to fascism. We already have enough of that.

[rubber soul]

One of the unfortunate lesson of politics is you can't get everything you want, so you take what you can.

[Frownland]

Does anyone really want what we're getting out of modern politics though? We should at least attempt to take what we can instead of undercutting ourselves from the outset.

[Lisnaholic]

Originally Posted by rubber soul

One of the unfortunate lesson of politics is you can't get everything you want, so you take what you can.

I agree with this, as I imagine rubber soul's "take what you can" has the add on of "by democratic means"

Originally Posted by Frownland

Does anyone really want what we're getting out of modern politics though?

Most Americans and most MBers would presumably answer "No".

We should at least attempt to take what we can instead of undercutting ourselves from the outset.

With your "take what you can", I'm not so sure that it has an add-on of "by democratic means", Frownland, but without that, what is it? A quote from a speech at the Ellipse before storming the Capitol ?

[Frownland]

More or less. Making your voice heard and educating people (maybe yourself) in the process is a pretty essential approach that I was trying to get at. Saying that we both want and can do certain things (or that we refuse to accept others) by directly speaking to your social circle and leaders to familiarize and potentially spread your ideas can be useful. Centrism is not.

I consider the government to be acting counter to democracy while being upheld by these democratic barriers though. The attitude that you take what you get in a time like this is essentially shrugging your shoulders at brownshirts. Like one of them said: "this will always remain one of the best jokes of democracy, that it gave its deadly enemies the means by which it was destroyed."

I think it would be more effective for bad things to happen to billionaires than politicians fwiw.