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Old 12-22-2021, 03:09 AM   #161 (permalink)
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I didn't watch West Wing.

What's your solution?
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I don't know anything about crypto. But I'll buy some and give it to you if anyone here has a plan to do more than come up with insults.
You don't have a plan so you don't get to make that criticism. But maybe get into labor organizing to build some actual power so you don't have to pretend incrementalism qualifies as a plan.
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Old 12-22-2021, 05:44 AM   #162 (permalink)
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voting for Democrats does matter ......

.....if you're concerned about gerrymandering, for instance, redistricting is done by the state legislature

so while you're considering whether to vote for Biden, old affluent folks are out stacking that **** in their favor at a local level
Yep, elph gets it, as does Trollheart when he talks about "the lesser of two evils".

On voting: this is your hard-won right in a democracy. IMO, everyone should vote, preferably for a party that honours election results. That way your voting rights are preserved, along with those of your children when they come of age. Or what will you tell your kids? " Yeah, we had democracy, but couldn't be bothered to keep it. Sorry, son."
Also, just because the President is not chosen on the basis of your vote alone doesn't invalidate its value. To me that attitude is a bit like this: your neighbour's truck needs a push to get it going: do you say,"Well, if I try to push it, it's not going to move, so I'm not going to push at all - even though I can see a bunch of neighbours have now come out to help" ?
(Last election, even that professed anarchist Occult Hawke decided to vote. Good for him, and where are you, OH? I worry that you are not here, letting off steam as a coping mechanism, like so many of us.)

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I guarantee you there are many more Democrats thankful that Manchin and Synema are willing to take the public relations hit. Many of them are being paid by the same interests and don't want to cross the corporations but are fine with pretending otherwise while there are just enough democrats holding up the vote.
Congratulations, Batlord! Your chipping away at my faith in the Dems has had its effect, especially after I watched a documentary about the Californian homeless crisis and came away with the clear conclusion: the Dems want to preserve the status quo.

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The democrats don't need support. They need to be removed.
Even so, ftfy; "The democrats don't need support as it is at the moment. They need more support."

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The wisdom is this. This 50/50 deadlock only allows a sort of incrimental movement toward a set of twin apocalypses. And it's this minor movement that makes people:

1. Not vote - a la 2000, or 2020 with a "they're all corrupt!" mantra
2. Think that civic engagement doesn't matter
3. Question everything, even beyond government, to include vaccines, wind turbines, change in general

I'm tired of trying to save these morons from themselves. I want DeSantis in. Let him stack the court until only reform is realistic. Let him repeal every COVID public health measure. I'll hang inside another 6 months and let the next variant wipe out entire industries to the point that we're begging south america to send people. Let the Handmaids Tale party allow for bounty hunters to kill unwed women over 40 as spinster whores.

One of two outcomes occurs. The Country sinks, or the "I just wish politics wasn't so nasty" crowd has to make a choice. This country is beyond saving. And anti-vaxx freakshow doesn't deserve any protection. I want them to ship more Midwestern jobs overseas, and allow them to have bazookas, and classify birth control as a Class A substance.

If people didn't wake up when they made it illegal to give water to people waiting to vote

If people didn't wake up when we hit 800,000 COVID deaths

If people didn't wake up when the 5th review of the Arizona recount confirmed a Biden win

If people didn't wake up when yet another hurricane takes out Texas or Florida, then **** 'em. If the choice is give us liberty or give us death, I choose death.
I'm not understanding all your ideas, Big3, but I agree that your list of "If people didn't wake up..." is pretty damning. You also have a fine flourish of rhetoric in describing the America of DeSantis, but realistically, choosing death or DeSantis seems to me like bizarre, self-defeating, melodramatic choices. Much better to vote for the Dems; help push your neighbour's truck. Help push America to a slightly better place because, as TH says, it's the lesser of two evils.
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Old 12-22-2021, 05:51 AM   #163 (permalink)
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Trump says he's 'very appreciative' and 'surprised' Biden thanked previous administration for helping make the COVID vaccine available to the public

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In regard to Biden's comment, Trump also told Fox News: 'I think it was a terrific thing, and I think it makes a lot of people happy.'

'I think he did something very good.'

'You know, it has to be a process of healing in this country, and that will help a lot.'
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A middle class job sounds like a boring menu option at a brothel

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Old 12-22-2021, 05:59 AM   #164 (permalink)
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And replaced with what? You only have currently a choice of two (since 1776 I think but someone better versed in American history may tell me I'm wrong).
There have been third party candidates in the past, most successfully, Theodore Roosevelt and his Bull Moose party in 1912. He didn't win but he did garner more votes and electoral votes than the Republican incumbent, William Howard Taft. Others who ran haven't been as successful, but a few have been able to influence the election for the eventual winner (Wallace for Nixon, Nader for Bush).

We have plenty of various political parties in the US, but the Dems and GOP have had a lock on the populace (mostly by raising money) for well over a hundred years now. I think people really want a Centrist party since neither party is willing to nominate someone closer to the center (say what you will about Biden, but, trust me, he does swing left). Unfortunately, the major parties have always found a way to keep the other parties out.

Would be interesting to see a Manchin or even a Romney run as an independent. Don't think either could win, but they could possibly make some noise, much like Ross Perot did in 1992. (And, to a lesser extent, 1996).
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Old 12-22-2021, 06:06 AM   #165 (permalink)
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Centrism is just code for capitulation to fascism. We already have enough of that.
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:00 AM   #166 (permalink)
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There have been third party candidates in the past, most successfully, Theodore Roosevelt and his Bull Moose party in 1912. He didn't win but he did garner more votes and electoral votes than the Republican incumbent, William Howard Taft. Others who ran haven't been as successful, but a few have been able to influence the election for the eventual winner (Wallace for Nixon, Nader for Bush).

We have plenty of various political parties in the US, but the Dems and GOP have had a lock on the populace (mostly by raising money) for well over a hundred years now. I think people really want a Centrist party since neither party is willing to nominate someone closer to the center (say what you will about Biden, but, trust me, he does swing left). Unfortunately, the major parties have always found a way to keep the other parties out.

Would be interesting to see a Manchin or even a Romney run as an independent. Don't think either could win, but they could possibly make some noise, much like Ross Perot did in 1992. (And, to a lesser extent, 1996).
That's it! Pack it up and go home, boys. We did it. We found the worst take.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:10 AM   #167 (permalink)
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One of the unfortunate lesson of politics is you can't get everything you want, so you take what you can.
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:26 AM   #168 (permalink)
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Does anyone really want what we're getting out of modern politics though? We should at least attempt to take what we can instead of undercutting ourselves from the outset.
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:40 AM   #169 (permalink)
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I don't know anything about crypto. But I'll buy some and give it to you if anyone here has a plan to do more than come up with insults.
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:54 AM   #170 (permalink)
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One of the unfortunate lesson of politics is you can't get everything you want, so you take what you can.
I agree with this, as I imagine rubber soul's "take what you can" has the add on of "by democratic means"

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Does anyone really want what we're getting out of modern politics though?
Most Americans and most MBers would presumably answer "No".

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We should at least attempt to take what we can instead of undercutting ourselves from the outset.
With your "take what you can", I'm not so sure that it has an add-on of "by democratic means", Frownland, but without that, what is it? A quote from a speech at the Ellipse before storming the Capitol ?
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