Synthgirl

Geez, you made me google to see if he actually was dead or not. Now I have his name in my google search history, thanks a lot.

WWWP

Just like you then

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#DEMODFROWNLAND
#TERMLIMITSFORMODERATORS

The Batlord

And yet I still smell better than your armpit hair.

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Breakcore Brigade

andrew tate is one of those individuals i'm torn between taking 100% seriously and laughing at his stupid face or taking 0% seriously and respecting him for the long con, tbh. unfortunately i'm like 90% sure it's the former considering i know people in real life who fit tate's target demographic to a T

SGR

Why are there so many (or enough) young men drawn into supporting Tate's content such that it makes him relevant or worth reporting on?

jwb

Tate and Peterson, whatever you think of them, are speaking to the problems of young men who are for the most part ignored by the left. That is largely why they are so successful. Even if you don't like the answers they provide, who is the leftist alternative? Or do you just reject the questions they're trying to answer altogether?

It's like people mock the self help **** yet 90% of it is more useful than anything they could possibly offer themselves as advice.

SGR

Yup, hit the nail on the head. This was partly what I was getting at with my initial question. Young men do not get the consideration, attention, and concern that young women do, at least in regards to media coverage or public outreach campaigns (besides military recruitment). Young men face their own problems. The right-wing solutions to these problems are often ridiculous, but there's not really an equivalent counterbalance to it on the left. Until there are sensible alternatives, expect young men to gravitate towards these outlandish characters because at the very least, these guys are speaking to them and their concerns and issues.

I hardly know anything about Tate, but from what I've gathered he's a red-pill type. There's kernels of truth, in some instances, through all that smoke, but if we're being honest, Peterson's tired trope of "cleaning your room" is a better starting point than anything Tate likely prescribes.

jwb

That's a cop out that is pretty emblematic of what I mean. If instead of getting into Jordan Peterson and self help let's say I just decided to sit around and vote for Bernie and hope eventually someday people will have free healthcare. That feels like a completely powerless and hopeless message to give. On an individual level even relatively bland advice like clean your room is infinitely more useful than believing in all the correct policies.

TheBig3

Some nameless conservative guy in an interview once said "the Left is incapable of talking about any relationship other than government." which was his way of saying church, family, yada yada. But it's also true of things like this. People should be free to fly their freak flag, and also the government should help. Those are the two things they stand for. The Left abandoned a lot of the staples of society like, neighbors and communities because of course, those enforce norms, and we don't like norms because they get exclusionary.

When Peterson talks about psychology and the adjacent topics, he's not bad. Just basic. When he talks about politics it's not different than Sean Penn. You're a celebrity for non-political reasons, and now you're going to talk about politics. There doesn't need to be a Left-version of the kind of folks who help young men (which is needed, by the way) because helping young men become Men and not raging incels shouldn't be political. The real question is, why do all these people speaking to young men come up with a Right-wing bent? The only person I know who is out there, attempting to help people in this same vein is Ryan Holiday, though he is completely focused on the Stoics, and isn't targeting young males specifically.

But he's the only one who isn't trying to sell a cult of personality on the side. As for Andrew Tate, I have nothing positive to say.

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The Batlord

Of course it's whack-a-mole but if the moles are convincing people to shoot up pizza restaurants and gay bars then it's insane not to whack them. Should something more be done? Does Tucker Carlson make banning Alex Jones from social media ineffective? Is there an entire media ecosystem that is too big and entrenched to be cancellable?

Yes. Obviously.

That doesn't make it pointless to step on a cockroach when you see it. That just means it's pointless if it isn't just a start.

And just like Joel Osteen and Amway are bigger, more influential, and more insidious than Andrew Tate that doesn't mean you should let them all run rampant, that means they all deserve attention. The libs who are only now starting to notice the scope of the problem just need to catch up and stop living in the 90s.

Jordan Peterson telling you to pull your pants up is a hopeless message. The problems of men in the modern age are bigger than individual responsibility can handle and that **** is a bandaid.

Why are so many men so socially isolated? Well part of the reason might be car culture turning cities into places that aren't safe for children to roam and where there's no place to roam in the first place so they just stay inside and play video games. The left might suggest urban planning to create walkable cities.

Why are so many men feeling emasculated? Well part of the reason might be the alienating nature of the modern workplace where you're a faceless cog in a machine fantasizing about earlier, manlier work where you feel more fulfilled and in control of your labor. The left might suggest labor organizing both to gain power in the workplace and the sense of fulfillment from connection with your fellow workers in a cooperative project.

Why are so many men feeling their traditional place in the world being threatened by changing gender dynamics? Well part of the reason might be that they viewed their place on top as a privilege that is being taken away. The left might suggest that this privilege was always harmful to all parties and that it would be liberating for men to shed the burden a rigid stereotype of what men are supposed to be.

And on and on and on cause men's issues are as complex and deeply entrenched as any other problem faced by society, and deciding that not sitting up straight and not working hard enough are the real problem is a coping mechanism to bring everything that can be so hard to conceptualize down to a simpler conceptual level that is easier to wrap your head around. Listening to Jordan Peterson might actually help you personally, but it isn't going to do anything to change the conditions that put men in the position they are in. The left isn't perfect by any means but they are actually trying to grapple with those conditions that Peterson and Tate ignore.

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