Rainard Jalen

lol, I guess so.

Regarding Battles, Godspeed You!!! Black Emperor, and Isis, it is interesting to find that they are very much acclaimed within the indie community. Not only that, but the first two are even frequently grouped as "indie". Hell, even in the case of Isis, I've heard terms like "indie metal" thrown around.

As for Battles in particular, I think it is the very case in point which demonstrates what is going on the best of all: that they have been so closely associated with the indie community tells me that, in many ways, it's all come back full circle! Prog is now indie all of a sudden, finally endorsed by those who scorned it for so long.

I think that's a positive sign, though. The best way forward for music at this juncture, I believe, is for artists to not shy away from trying certain things in order to avoid an unwanted label.

British_pharaoh

Comus aren't that great

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"I hate Purity, I hate Goodness, I don't want virtue to exist anywhere. I want everyone corrupt to the bones"

Fat Ed's Guide To Metal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfdqV_sqal0

boo boo

The goals of Prog and Indie are pretty much the same. The execution is just very different.

Porcupine Tree, Ozric Tentacles, Anglagard, Spocks Beard, Flower Kings, they're all Indie label bands. But no one considers them Indie because they are well established as Prog. As for Battles, some don't think they are prog, because Prog has a few stupid purist fans who think any band that sounds "too different" from other prog bands can't be prog. Couldn't be further from the truth.

I think Indie bands are not just bands that are on an Indie label but simply have what would be considered an "Indie sound". In other words they dont fall into any other genre so they're Indie. Battles dispite being on an Indie label, sound like a prog band, and therefore are a prog band.

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teshadoh

The internet killed indie rock. Ok, it is still alive (I haven't moved under a stone just yet) but as good Tapes & Tapes & other bands are, what made indie rock of the 80's / 90's interesting was that it wasn't commercially accessible the way all music is now. You don't need to sign on a major label or subsidiary to have your music heard in every single home. Whereas indie rock in the past depended on fanzines & plain old word of mouth, today's indie rock band requires very little promotion to be heard. Ok, I'm a snobby 30 something indie rock elitist that is jealous that young people today have access to all kinds of music unlike when I was young.

Post 1985 punk music is irrelevant. Certainly quality punk music did come out since then, but much of it is uninspired skater punk or punk music that doesn't sound too different from other genres of music. Fugazi for example, they are awesome, but I think they could just as easily be labeled a indie rock band in the same vein of Unwound, Sebadoh or Pixies. Only difference being they don't sound as adventurous. Ok, I'm a 30 something punk poser who enjoyed punk from a distance.

I totally love 70's & early 80's pop music - from Freefall, Christopher Cross, Gilbert O'Sullivan, Starbuck, to Paul McCartney & Wings.

boo boo

Pretty much, yes.

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Rainard Jalen

Don't agree at all. The vast majority of indie bands (I'd go so far as to say the whole lot) can be quite trivially put into some rock subgenre or other. In fact there are dozens upon dozens upon freakin' dozens of such terms to describe all manners and modes of "indie" music under the sun.

teshadoh

I kind of agree with rainard - seems that rock music has pulled away from numerous sub-genres that were more common in the 80's.

But on the other hand, I think so many bands cross all genres that it is hard to classify as any single style. What is At the Drive In? Prog, emo, post-core, noise, or what? Sure there were bands that crossed genres - Alan Parsons Project & Genesis both entertained pop success, but because they at least started off as prog, they could still be easily called prog. Then it was either pop or all else. Now it is all else, very little division between genres.

TheBig3

Whats that got to do with anything I've said?

I'm suggesting that theres a sound out there that was made from a economic situation. And while I don't care, in fact I actually like the indie "sound" I'm just hoping you're drawing a distinction because I don't know that anyone is claiming the killers are a pioneering institution but those in the economic situation likely still are.

I don't care to think about it too elboratly unless its needed for the argument but I'd suspect that the position of "economic situation" will apply to bands placed their by fate or by willing intention equally.

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Whatsitoosit

Led Zeppelin weren't that great of a band, both Robert Plant and Jimmy Page weren't that great on their instruments.

Abba was a great act, loved by most people (usually in secret).

The Rolling Stones are/were a better band then the Beatles.

Jimi Hendrix wasn't the greatest guitarist ever, he was actually quite sloppy at times.

TheBig3

/refute

Yeah but your romanticising how indie was.

With regard to fanzines and word of mouth you're either wishing they were still relevent or lamenting the progression of technology. Given that you're actually on the internet, i can assume you're not some gnarled up yankee from the Vermont hills and you wish that **** was still sold out of the trunks of used cars.

And thats fine but the internet didn't kill anything..which brings me to my second point.

The greatest virtue of anything capitalist is that if theres a demand for something the supply will likely follow. So indie had a few more fans than we once thought because more people have access to it.

I can't imagine why anyone lives in Oklahoma, but they do and its likely that if they lived in a remote area in 1980, they didn't have much access ot the fan zines and mix tapes of the Metro regions on the east coast.

Lets not even mention how isolationist those genres can be when their attempting to retain purity.

So MySpace LastFm have given it more fans, but at least its prevelent now. All it means for the old indie fans is that they have to work a little harder to keep their cred. Don't roll your eyes, heres why I say that.

1. If it was actually a sound you liked, then why wouldn't you like the same sound. Label ought to be irrelvent.

2. If it wasn't the sound that mattered, which is to say you liked lyrics or...I don't know outfits, then the predominance of the sound wouldn't matter to begin with.

And let me be clear here, I'm not rallying against you because I appreciate your admission that you had to work harder at one time to get good music, but I've heard arguments along these lines before and they weren't certainly serious, so if their going to be presented, I'd just like to say my poisiton.

As for the punk debate, I can't speak to that. Punks never been a passion of mine and I tend to like the blasphomy that doesn't go over well in that forum...no for real, the offspring kick ass.

I'm getting a workout today. Slow day at the office.

I think the sloppy guitar work makes him the greatest guitar ever. I don't care for anyone with needlefingers.

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