Unpopular Music Opinions

Zyrada · 06-02-2014, 11:33 AM

Talking about whether or not The Beatles were the best band ever is a stale and uninventive way to make enemies. "Best x ever" is just a really terrible framing device for a conversation in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade_City

They also kinda cashed in on the whole psychedelia thing because it was trendy.

I'm also very dubious about cash-in claims. There's always this underlying assumption of artistic intent. It's easy to be cynical about their mid-to-late aesthetic within the cultural context of the times, but I'd say at least for some of them, Harrison in particular, it wasn't as if their tapping into the psychedelic wave was just shallow commercialism.

Ninetales · 06-02-2014, 11:36 AM

Also who cares about an artists intention? You can make great music even if you want to make money off of it. Never really understood the criticism there tbh

Zyrada · 06-02-2014, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade_City

I was away from this thread for a while, but you guys got talking about the Beatles. Anyway, like I said everyone sees them through rose tinted glass, this whole 60's counterculture thing and all that. Now I'm assuming here many of you were born AFTER the 60's yes? Or maybe you were born right at the end and were too young to really remember. Most people I know that are of that generation where they grew up as teenagers listening to the bands of the 60's remember the Beatles as being rather standard. Now I will admit they're good, and their music is listenable, but essentially they're just the boyband of the 60's, just like One Direction (albeit 100000x more talented). That's just my opinion though. I do like the White album, but their earlier stuff is just kinda cheesy pop imo. They also kinda cashed in on the whole psychedelia thing because it was trendy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninetales

Also who cares about an artists intention? You can make great music even if you want to make money off of it. Never really understood the criticism there tbh

Exactly. A commodity can still be good art as far as I'm concerned.

Wpnfire · 06-02-2014, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I go back and forth on my opinions about Slayer. I definitely think they reached their creative peak with Reign In Blood and, no matter how good succeeding albums may have been, they were never as creatively relevant afterwards. But sometimes I love Reign In Blood's brutality, and other times I prefer the greater emphasis on that dark, chaotic atmosphere from their earlier albums. While RIB's production and its stripped down clarity allowed for an intensity they'd never had before, it came at a cost for that atmosphere.

And when I'm in the mood for the earlier stuff I definitely agree on Haunting the Chapel. Even if it's short it still captures Slayer's early ideas at their apex. "Chemical Warfare" is pretty much all that is good about first wave black metal.

If you're a bigger fan of that period of their career I'm curious how this grabs you.

That song is sick ! !

The Batlord · 06-02-2014, 12:25 PM

Excellent. Another one to convert to Bathory. Bathory could pretty much do no wrong for their first five or six albums. I can't really suggest any of them over the others cause they're all brilliant. But it just makes more sense to start with their self-titled debut, which ^^^that song is from.

FRED HALE SR. · 06-02-2014, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wpnfire

Show No Mercy > Reign In Blood.

Haunting the Chapel may be better than all of their other albums by itself I think.

Listened to Haunting The Chapel on Saturday. It was certainly a game changer of sorts, but like Batlord I think they reached new heights with Reign In Blood. I'll throw out that I think Ghost's of War off SOH is my alltime favorite jam by them.

FRED HALE SR. · 06-02-2014, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyrada

Talking about whether or not The Beatles were the best band ever is a stale and uninventive way to make enemies. "Best x ever" is just a really terrible framing device for a conversation in general.

I'm also very dubious about cash-in claims. There's always this underlying assumption of artistic intent. It's easy to be cynical about their mid-to-late aesthetic within the cultural context of the times, but I'd say at least for some of them, Harrison in particular, it wasn't as if their tapping into the psychedelic wave was just shallow commercialism.

You can't control who likes and buys your music, therefore that argument is stale and outdated. I just bought Off!"s new album and they cracked the billboard 100 and I don't even feel like a poseur one bit.

Jade_City · 06-02-2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyrada

Talking about whether or not The Beatles were the best band ever is a stale and uninventive way to make enemies. "Best x ever" is just a really terrible framing device for a conversation in general.

I'm also very dubious about cash-in claims. There's always this underlying assumption of artistic intent. It's easy to be cynical about their mid-to-late aesthetic within the cultural context of the times, but I'd say at least for some of them, Harrison in particular, it wasn't as if their tapping into the psychedelic wave was just shallow commercialism.

I guess I came off as a bit harsh, however I will stand with my previous point that they're grossly overrated. I wasn't really trying to talk about whether or not the Beatles are the best band ever. Since this IS an unpopular opinion thread I will point out that they continually receive far too much credit for what they're worth and the reason why they receive said too much credit. Also when you think about it there does seem to be a bit of commercialism in their image change to me, its not solely commercialism, but it does seem that way when you compare the style of Please Please me and Revolver. Just in the span of three years they went from a clean cut boyband to psychedelic drug taking hippies. Not that there's anything wrong with that, probably most of their transition was organic with the changing social trends of the time. Just I feel there is a commercial element in there. That's just me, I'm not a professional, just speculating at the end of the day.

Black Francis · 06-02-2014, 03:29 PM

@Jade

i do agree there is a commercial aspect as in to why the beatles are as iconic as they are now but i do think the main reason they made the kinda music they made was because that's the kinda music they loved, i don't think they did it to be popular, as i recall once they transitioned to their psychedelic phase they lost alot of clean cut fans just like they did when lennon claimed the Beatles were more influential than Jesus among the youth so i don't think the Beatles ever tried to cash in on their public image at the expense of their music.

In the 'Imagine' Doc by John lennon he talks about all those things, how repressed music artist were at those times and how they couldn't even talk about current global events, i mean he even had to hide the fact he was married.
And yea at the beginning they played into that but later on they shed that clean cut look and started playing activist messages in their songs and jumped into the psychedelic culture and i don't think that was done as a commercial move.

Moss · 06-02-2014, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade_City

I guess I came off as a bit harsh, however I will stand with my previous point that they're grossly overrated. I wasn't really trying to talk about whether or not the Beatles are the best band ever. Since this IS an unpopular opinion thread I will point out that they continually receive far too much credit for what they're worth and the reason why they receive said too much credit. Also when you think about it there does seem to be a bit of commercialism in their image change to me, its not solely commercialism, but it does seem that way when you compare the style of Please Please me and Revolver. Just in the span of three years they went from a clean cut boyband to psychedelic drug taking hippies. Not that there's anything wrong with that, probably most of their transition was organic with the changing social trends of the time. Just I feel there is a commercial element in there. That's just me, I'm not a professional, just speculating at the end of the day.

Wow, I get that you dont get the Beatles but this shows such a lack of understanding of historical context. And calling them the boy band of their generation...what does that make the stones, Hendrix, Nirvana, and uncountable other bands that were so greatly influenced by them?

Alright im done with the Beatles thing, honest.

06-02-2014, 03:29 PM	#8659 (permalink)
Black Francis Out of Place Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: in an abstract house Posts: 4,111	@Jade i do agree there is a commercial aspect as in to why the beatles are as iconic as they are now but i do think the main reason they made the kinda music they made was because that's the kinda music they loved, i don't think they did it to be popular, as i recall once they transitioned to their psychedelic phase they lost alot of clean cut fans just like they did when lennon claimed the Beatles were more influential than Jesus among the youth so i don't think the Beatles ever tried to cash in on their public image at the expense of their music. In the 'Imagine' Doc by John lennon he talks about all those things, how repressed music artist were at those times and how they couldn't even talk about current global events, i mean he even had to hide the fact he was married. And yea at the beginning they played into that but later on they shed that clean cut look and started playing activist messages in their songs and jumped into the psychedelic culture and i don't think that was done as a commercial move. __________________ "Hey Kids you got to meet the MIGHTY PIXIES!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbRbCtIgW3A

06-02-2014, 11:36 AM	#8652 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	Also who cares about an artists intention? You can make great music even if you want to make money off of it. Never really understood the criticism there tbh