Urban Hat€monger ?

Well define what you consider writing a song.
Even just the smallest change in a song by another person could cause it to sound radically different from how it was originally intended.

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Soulflower

To me a songwriter is someone who writes and comes up with lyrics to create a song. They construct the song from sketch and pretty much writes the song. They have proven that they can write a song on their own merit

Now there are also some songwriters who participate in this process by collaborating with other songwriters. I still consider them to be songwriters.

Then you also have lyricists who participate in the songwriting process but just add lyrics to the song. I consider these to be lyricists more so than actual songwriters.




I think switching around one word from a song that has already been completed is not something I would consider to be songwriting. They did not participate in creating the song. They switched a word or two around after it was completed. That is simply a singer looking for a credit.

That is not songwriting.

Urban Hat€monger ?

I wasn't talking about a word. I was talking about changing something in the music to radically alter the sound of the song.

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Soulflower

Oh then yes


Something that is related to production or music arrangements would be in a producer category and if a singer has radically changed the production of a song, then they definitely deserve a producer credit for sure.

Urban Hat€monger ?

Is it a production credit though?

There's more to songwriting than just putting some notes and words together. If something isn't working in the song and someone comes along and suggests something that makes it better that's more on the songwriting side than the production side.

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Soulflower

Yes it is a production credit

And I agree with the bolded but you did not describe that


I agree but once again that is not what you described.

Your description had more to do with co producing, musical arranging and composition.

For instance, if a singer wanted to change the vocal arrangements to a song than the singer would get a songwriter credit. That is another way they could get a credit without actually writing the song.

However, if a singer wants to change the musical arrangement of the song in which you described (radically changing the sound) then that is a co producer credit.

Urban Hat€monger ?

Yes but as we were discussing songwriting I clearly meant from a songwriting standpoint than a production one. I was talking about changing the nuts & bolts of the song, not altering the bit of gloss at the end.

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Soulflower

What do you mean by nuts and bolts?

I am asking because that could be anything.

You should have specifically said vocal arrangements then because you specifically referred to "changing the sound" which is different.

The only way a singer can get a songwriter credit is if they actually participated in writing the song, change a lyric around or change the vocal arrangements.

The Batlord

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Urban Hat€monger ?

I didn't specify because that's my whole point, you can't.
Every artist is going to have different ideas about what constitute getting a writing credit and what doesn't.

If someone comes up with an idea for a song, hums a melody to someone and that person goes off and writes the song, does the original person then deserve a credit? I know of countless times that was the case.

Every Rolling Stones song is credited to Jagger & Richards yet both men have written Rolling Stones songs individually and still given the other man credit for writing it, thats just how they work it in their organisation.

I've also seen some producers get songwriting credits, I've seen producers who are the brains behind a project and who just use a band as a front get no songwriting credit.

Plus you also have to take into account that some artists just put all the bands names as songwriters regardless of who writes what because it's well known that it's the songwriting that gets you paid from record sales rather than just performing on an album. And some bands just prefer to split it equally.

It's not a black & white issue, there are plenty of shade of grey.

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