Off the top of my head, I can`t think of any groups that I don`t listen to because of the vocalist. I think Axl Rose is a terrible singer but I still listen to their stuff.

I think what matters to you is a choice of your own. For instance, i was talking to someone on here who won't listen to Burzum because he's racist and burns churches and murders people (his words, not mine), even though he doesn't sing about that. It bothers me more that Tom Araya is Catholic but sings about being a follower of Satan for dramatic effect than that Varg Vikernes burns churches - at least he stands by his ideals (whether or not I agree with them) and doesn't just pretend to be a certain way for metal points. I find that to be way more true to metal. It is what matters to me. It doesn't have to be what matters to anyone else. And, as i already stated, their Catholicism is not why i dislike Slayer. In fact... i would go so far as to say that I do like slayer, just not Tom Araya.

Luckily in metal you can rarely even hear the lyrics :) For instance, my favorite band:



I'm not sure if there are even lyrics... I've tried to look them up. I don't think so :D

Well, sometimes a vocalist makes me with I could understand the vocals. You're right about this one though, doesn't sound like there are any vocals. And it doesn't appeal to me at all.

Does it also bother you that James Hetfield sings about losing his sight, hearing, arms and legs to a landmine despite the fact that this has clearly never happened to him?

lol. :p:

Ha - that's funny. Or like ironic at least. How do you figure that Araya is "pretending" any more than Varg (doesn't that mean 'wolf' in some language? What a fake)?
I wager that Araya has a deeper understanding of his own background and religion than wolfman does. Exploration of darkness is the essence of Catholicism - especially for American Hispanic Catholics. Perhaps Varg needs to experience life outside of the liberal 80s Scandinavian politics that spawned the region's fairly ridiculous 90s black metal scene and a posh jail cell before he can ponder what the meaning of 'extreme' is, eh?

If you're just asking why Slayer is a good metal band then here is my response:
Araya screamed with more hardcore punk finesse than any of the other 'big ones', Lombardo played better drums than pretty much everybody since the Jazz greats, and King played ingeniously unintuitive, nonsensical guitar solos that stir the soul more than any xenophobic Norwegian asshole ever has. If you like Wolfie but hate Araya, and this bias reflects in your metal taste, then I doubt you're much of a music fan.

You`ve certainly got a warped viewpoint here. Firstly, Tom Araya probably only writes about 30% of the bands lyrics at most! The groups main lyricists are both Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman and so he sings what he`s given. In reference to the "Reign in Blood" album Tom Araya didn`t write a single lyric on there and that is one of the group`s most controversial releases! Slayer also sing about different forms of violence such as serial killers, warfare and nazism etc ......and I doubt very much that they practice any of these. In fact a lot of metal groups don`t practice what they sing, so Slayer can hardly be called fake in that respect.

If you`re trying to infer that Varg Vikernes and the other Norweigan black metal acts are true metal because they practice what they preach and the other groups like Slayer don`t etc. Then that is complete and utter bollocks and an extremely narrow minded viewpoint on your part.

That`s not really a correct statement is it? With the exception of black, death, various thrash bands and some other genres of metal. The majority of metal has clean vocals with dominant lead singers. If you doubt my word, try checking out other genres of metal and especially power metal. Also remember Dio, Bruce ****inson...................

I don't like much metal but what I do listen to I prefer to know what's being sung about.

You must hate Sigur Ros....

*starts singing in Hopelandic*

Do you like Dance music?
No?
That's why.

haha yea, this kind of music is definitely an acquired taste :)

very nice try at an analogy but alas...

IF the ENTIRE subject matter of Metallica as a band was about the difficulties etc. of being a deaf, dumb, and blind quadraplegic, I WOULD have a problem with it.

But... as this is not the entire subject matter of the band... and as Satanism and/or anti-Christianity is the (almost) ENTIRE subject matter of Slayer's music... the analogy is not great.

And I'd like to reiterate that I am allowed to like or dislike whatever I want based on what I find to be important, and that it is not necessary to attempt to humiliate me because you disagree with my reasons for disliking something.

I have never experienced "logic" such as yours before...
First of all, nicknames are pervasive through the musical world and I'd argue that merely giving yourself a nickname (especially one that is in line with the lifestyle and ancestral religion of the people of the country in which you were raised) is not faking as much as telling millions of people in your songs that Satan is your master when you are Catholic.
Second, before you criticize Varg Vikernes based on the Norwegian penal system (it's not HIS fault the jails there are more lenient and, conveniently, more EFFECTIVE than our "brand them and throw them in the trash to rot" system) perhaps you should consider how he got there in the first place. I'd say that BURNING DOWN CHURCHES and STABBING YOUR FRIEND IN THE FOREHEAD WITH A KNIFE are levels of "extreme" that would make a god-fearing Catholic such as Araya piss in his pants just to watch.

I am no longer asking why Slayer is a good metal band. If you had taken the time to read the conversation you would have noticed that I agree that Slayer is an incredible instrumental metal band and that I simply do not like Tom Araya's vocal style (and that I'm perturbed by the subject matter, considering)

Calling someone's viewpoint warped is certainly an ineffective way to converse with them.

Whether or not Tom Araya writes the lyrics is irrelevant. How I feel goes for any of the members of the band. They agree to perform the music with its subject matter as a band and who writes what is irrelevant. No one has answered my question about whether or not Slayer has always been open about the fact that their subject matter is just for effect. If they have always been open about it then I have no problem with it. But if they spent years of their career trying to seem metal by having this subject matter and not letting on that they, in fact, deeply disagree with it, that is different (to me). And I emphasize "to me" because many of you seem to think that it can be proved wrong that it matters if they sing about being followers of satan when they are Catholics (or Tom Araya is, I don't know about the others but I know they're not satanists) when, in fact, it is up to me and only me if i decide to care about this. I'm not sure why so many of you are trying so hard to convince me that it is not important if, to me, it is.

As far as your comment about how "lot's of metal bands don't practice what they sing" i suggest you refer to my earlier post where I mentioned this, my feelings about it, and why i think Slayer is different.

As far as your last paragraph... i am not trying to suggest that. I am simply making a statement about how I feel about the band Slayer and that is it.

Also, I guess I must reiterate AGAIN that my main problem with slayer has nothing to do with their subject matter. I love their instrumentals. I just don't like Tom Araya's vocal style. i don't like the way he sings. It bothers me. Or are you going to try to convince me that THAT shouldn't bother me either?

^

You do know there's a multi quote function don't you? It's next to the quote button.

Um... I'd say that since you offered more than three examples of metal genres where you can't usually hear the lyrics and only one genre and two singers where you can... that perhaps the first example IS the majority. I think it is.

Also, please don't presume to know what I listen to. I happen to listen to power metal.

Listen to classic or power metal. Some thrash and death metal even, like Chuck Schuldiner. Or read the lyrics :)

It's just easier for me to organize my thoughts if i do one at a time. But also... I can't figure out how to use that multi-quote thing. Help? :)

Just click the multi quote button on each post you want. On the last one hit quote. You will be all set.

You chose what posts you want to quote by clicking that multi-quote button, right next to quote button, on every one of those posts. The multi-quote button will change color. Then you hit the big quote button on any of the posts you've chosen. That way you can write your answer under every quote in one post. I hope I didn't make this seem more complex then it is :)

Edit: Alright, duga already explained, and in one sentence (I mean three short ones).

Thanks guys! It was that last detail about hitting the quote button that i wasn't getting when I was trying to do it before. That will make life much easier :)

Nearly all the ENTIRE subject matter of this forum revolves around music. Most of the posters on here aren`t musicians, yet they discuss music on here. Does this make them fake, given the fact that they aren`t musicians?

I think you`re an apologist for Varg Vikernes.

Not when that person goes round and round in circles.

Didn`t see this little snippet till after posting.

I think we both know what I`m speaking about here. The reference to power metal was just one example from a majority of metal genres, as opposed to the minority where vocals aren`t really understood at all, so lets not split hairs.

Music is not only something you play, but something you listen to. This forum is for music. Not musicians only. Music listeners, I'm sure, have something to say about music.
Also, if a band is singing about what fun it is to perform abortions but they have never performed abortions, that is one thing. If the members of said band happen to be life-long dedicated members of a an anti-abortion activist group... i would be perturbed. Why are you singing about how fun it is to perform abortions when you have a deeply held belief that abortion is the ultimate evil?
That, to me, is the difference between singing about something you do not practice, and promoting something with your music that is the exact opposite of your most deeply held ideals.

I'm not really sure where you are getting my apologist standpoint from. i was merely responding to the statement you made that Varg knows nothing about extreme (suggesting that Tom Araya does?) by mentioning that if you were to compare the two, Varg is most definitely the more extreme. I had previously stated that I don't necessarily agree with Varg's ideals or actions.

And, no, attacking someone in a rude way is not effective, even if you think they are going around in circles.

You, however, are going around in circles because you have attempted to deter me from MY OWN OPINION with the same tactics (offering up faulty analogies) over and over again.

Why exactly is it that you are so determined to deter me from my opinion? The point of this thread is to offer reasons why you like a band/album that others don't like. Not to attack people based on their reasons for disliking them.

To be honest... I'm not splitting hairs. I'm merely suggesting that I think the amount of metal bands with indiscernible lyrics has the majority over the amount of metal bands with lyrics you can understand.

For instance, the only genres (that I can think of) in which you can usually hear the lyrics are classic metal and power metal. Classic metal is a dead genre. There are no new classic metal bands and there are very few modern bands who imitate classic bands such as iron maiden or black sabbath. That leaves one genre... power metal... which is not (in my experience) the largest of the metal genres. You could even include thrash as having usually clear and i would still say that:

Death and black metal (I think) are the largest genres (and include many sub-genres) and usually you cannot hear the lyrics. Therefore... I do not consider it to be splitting hairs to suggest that the majority of metal bands that exist or have existed have vocals with indiscernible lyrics.

I was listening to Blind Guardian earlier and as usual they were singing about Middle Earth, swords and scorcery, wizards and dragons etc. I doubt they participate in quests against the dark lord of Mordor etc............sounds like another bunch of metal fakes to me, but it certainly beats singing about abortions though:yikes:

Given that you constantly prattle on, about how Varg Vikernes follows his ideals (Then you constantly say you don`t condone his actions) and its not his fault that he`s treated leniantly in prison (Yet you approve of the leniancy of these prisons) About how he`d have Tom Araya pissing in his pants (Because Varg actually does the stuff that Tom wouldn`t) Certainly leads the reader to conclude that you have a certain amount of admiration for the man.

I don`t think anybody is going to deter your opinion, as you`re too far gone just to appreciate the simple things in life, like good metal music, instead of analyzing whether the group concerned, practices what it preaches or not.

I don't like SCREAMYGROWLY vocals. Knowing what's being sung is a plus but I just don't like it when some a‎sshole gets up and does a bunch of that kind of thing.

Vocals are also just a part of my general disgust towards much metal that I've listened to.

You could just open the quotes in different tabs and copy+paste them into the same thing but whatever bro

We could sit here and go through about the 20-30 metal genres and I`m certain the majority without any doubt has discernible lyrics, when I say discernible I`m talking the majority of their material is receptive to the ear and doesn`t involve growls, snarls, screams and shrieking to the excess of the example I gave on a previous thread here.

I cease to recognize the point of anything you say. As you constantly refuse to actually read and digest anything I have said, twisting it, instead, into some misinterpreted glob of whatever you feel like arguing against without actually referring to a single point that I have made... be sure that the last person who could deter my opinion would be you and your way of arguing.

I shall from this point forward ignore your remarks unless, by some miracle, you manage to say something which requires an actual thought process and not just a rude attitude.

(Oh and if we'd like to talk about prattling on... your comment about Blind Guardian completely ignores the distinction I made and is, in fact, identical to the same comment you have repeatedly made and to which I have offered a multi-faceted and diverse argument, which you continue to ignore)

Ok well then I would suggest power metal or classic metal since most of the vocals are clean. But if you don't like metal you don't like metal.

Um, I've since been shown how to use the multi-quote function. I'm not sure why you feel the need to take an attitude with me here... but by the way... I'm not a bro. I'm a woman.

I simply disagree.

Loosen up you`re taking this all too seriously, and by the way you`ve also evaded direct reponses to questions as well, instead preferring to to analyze things way beyond reasonable levels.

You`ve mentioned that you`re a singer, what type of stuff do you sing about?

Hm..I don't think Araya tells anybody anything about himself in his songs. Are you under the impression that singers always sing lyrics that are specifically about themselves? That's odd. Anyway, even if Araya does sing about himself, what precludes a Catholic from being Satan's minion?
Welcome to my logic

Maybe Araya would be scared to do those things because he knows he would get in real trouble and have to do hard prison time. Or maybe he's just not a murderous attention whoring dickhead. Who knows

That's why I used an "if/then" statement in my post (logic, you see). Because no I didn't take the time to read the whole conversation, just responded to the post that I quoted. I was trying to explain to you why I like his vocals since you don't understand that (it's the concept behind the thread title).

I take it seriously when I feel like I'm being attacked, which is how I feel when people speak to me with the attitude with which you've been addressing me. Granted, this is an internet forum so I take responsibility for possibly misinterpreting your tone.
If I have analyzed beyond reason it was only in an attempt to directly answer the questions that were posed to me. I didn't intentionally evade anything and if there is still a lingering question you'd like me to answer, shoot. If it's the same question you've asked me three times (whether I should dislike everyone who sings about doing something they don't do) I think I've answered that question thoroughly (a few times over).

Also, you claim that I can't look past things and simply enjoy the music. This is yet another example of your completely ignoring things that I have said... such as that the reason I don't like listening to slayer is that I don't like the sound of Tom Araya's vocals (nothing to do with their subject matter). I just don't enjoy them.

I sing mostly classical music, none of which I write. the subject matter varies.

To be honest... I don't think I am over-analyzing. You have tried to present me with examples that are supposed to confound me and prove that I am contradicting myself when, in fact, the examples you present are very different from the one that I am talking about and offer no contradiction. When I point this out to you... you ignore it and continue making the same impotent argument against what I have said.

The above I would say was a cultural difference. Being a Brit we can be overly direct with opinions, a fellow Brit might not take offence because he/she would be used to the tone, whereas somebody from elsewhere may take offence to certain words or phrases.

Even though I don`t agree with a lot of what you say, you`ve still expressed your opinion in a constructive way (albeit around the mulberry bush type way) but thats what forums are largely for anyway.

Your first paragraph reflects the fact that you haven't read the conversation. I have spent quite a while explaining the difference between singers who sing about things that aren't necessarily true about themselves and Tom Araya.

Someone honestly tell me that Slayer didn't want to at least seem like they were for real. They weren't open about their religion at the beginning. I think it's because they thought it would lessen their image and they didn't want that. Therefore: pretenders.

Thanks for introducing me to your logic. Would you mind using it to explain how one can be both a catholic and a satanist?

Are you suggesting that Tom Araya would burn churches and stab people in the forehead if he wasn't afraid of going to American prison? Call me crazy but... i highly doubt that. And you're right, he's not a murderous attention whore, he's just an attention whore.

Also, I don't appreciate your comment that I must not be a music lover or fan or something just because of my particular opinion. I happen to be a music major. I think I must have a certain amount of love for it. Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't mean it is incorrect.

My logic is telling me not to bother responding to you.
Oops - here I go being illogical again. Don't worry, I've learned my lesson now.:wave:

I'll take into consideration the cultural difference, but for an American, I am extremely direct with my opinion. I find that rudeness is not the same as directness...

I'm still not really sure exactly why you think that I "beat around the mulberry bush." I have been clear and detailed about what i think. I haven't avoided stating my opinion. I have even responded multiple times in multiple ways to the same exact question from you. And now you have ceased entirely to offer any argument against the statements I have made. I think it is you who is beating around the mulberry bush.

No, it really isn't "almost the entire subject matter of Slayer's music". If anything I'd say the main thing their lyrics are about is war and violence. You know, like a lot of other thrash bands. So, actually, the analogy is pretty dead on.

I don`t recall asking you the exact same question multiple times, so lets no exaggerate eh!

Well lets face it, your argument has been pretty one dimensional to say the least. You`ve constantly said how Slayer are pretend satanists who also happen to be catholics (wow that sounds confusing) which makes them fakes, something you don`t approve of. You don`t like Tom Araya because he spends all album yelling. What have you got against yelling? Then you confound everybody, by saying that you actually like the band as they are great musicians (wow even more confusing now) And in an attempt to legitimize your opinions, you use somebody that practices what they preach. You use Varg Vikernes both a murderer and arsonist, along with being a racist to support your argument!

I think you need a good bonk on the head:bonkhead:

bro there's no attitude here bro but I'd just like to say

if we brofought



you'd brolose