When is the artist no longer really the artist?

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-07-2013, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

That's why I used McLaren as an example actually, because he wasn't involved in writing the songs, just vaguely "getting the people in the room together".

I don't really think of McLaren that way, I think his best attribute was he was a bullsh*tter and could bluff his way through anything and then hype up whatever they had done.

When I think of "getting the people in the room together" type people my first thought is the super producers of the 60s like Joe Meek & Phil Spector. Or more up to date Rick Rubin doing those albums with Johnny Cash or Mark Ronson.
People like that.

**Janszoon** · 08-07-2013, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

I don't really think of McLaren that way, I think his best attribute was he was a bullsh*tter and could bluff his way through anything and then hype up whatever they had done.

Kanye West could definitely be described the same way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

When I think of "getting the people in the room together" type people my first thought is the super producers of the 60s like Joe Meek & Phil Spector. Or more up to date Rick Rubin doing those albums with Johnny Cash or Mark Ronson.
People like that.

I thought of using Rick Rubin/Johnny Cash as an example, but they don't really fit because Cash really is responsible for the core performance elements on those albums even if Rubin was making a lot of the decisions.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-07-2013, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Kanye West could definitely be described the same way.

He doesn't have Malcolm McLarens charm

**Janszoon** · 08-07-2013, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

He doesn't have Malcolm McLarens charm

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-07-2013, 09:05 PM

I've somehow managed to go a whole decade only hearing one Kanye West song ever and that was a totally butched version of some Curtis Mayfield song that he ruined, and I'm rather proud of that fact.

He can go f*ck himself.

TheBig3 · 08-07-2013, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I've been enjoying Kanye West's most recent album lately, and as I usually do with albums I like, I went and read the Wikipedia entry on it. In doing so I discovered that, like his previous overblown album, this current streamlined minimalistic one also involved dozens of co-producers, co-writers and other assorted collaborators. I wasn't really surprised but it did make wonder if I'm really enjoying Kanye West here or if I'm enjoying some of the other people involved. I realize this type of massive group collaboration is common in pop music, but Kanye West isn't a Britney Spears where everyone assumes the performer isn't really the mastermind. He's definitely considered the creator of his releases, and often praised for the things he does with music.

I'm bringing that up as an example, I'm not intending to talk about him specifically. My question, about artists in general, is when are they no longer really the artist? If you didn't do the majority of the writing or performing, if your primary role was simply getting a bunch of talented people in a room together, does it make any kind of sense to give you full credit as the artist?

What do you guys think?

Well, it might be his executive vision. Directors or CEOs don't do it all, either. But at the end of the day, its their name on the label. I think its harder to determine when the album is well received.

If Yeezus sucked, everyone would have no problem saying "Jesus, Kanye **** the bed on this album, huh?" And that would be justified (in my mind).

Trollheart · 08-08-2013, 05:27 AM

Another one who is, or was, great at selecting the right group of musicians to realise his vision was Alan Parsons. Although he did write and produce, so perhaps not the best example. Nevertheless, with the likes of Ian Bairnson, David Paton and even Eric Woolfson it was still always under Parsons' name, first as the Alan Parsons Project and later then just as his own name, although by then Woolfson had split with him.

Arya Stark · 08-08-2013, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

I've somehow managed to go a whole decade only hearing one Kanye West song ever and that was a totally butched version of some Curtis Mayfield song that he ruined, and I'm rather proud of that fact.

He can go f*ck himself.

He's also produced a lot of music that people may not know about. You may even be a fan of some of the songs without knowing!!

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-08-2013, 07:23 AM

Well I'm willing to be proved wrong

Franco Pepe Kalle · 08-08-2013, 07:37 AM

I would say when an artists start to copy other artists which has become a sad pattern. When that happens, you know the artist has lost his or her identity.

Look at artists (dead and alive) like Mariah Carey, Michael Jackson, Usher, Prince, and others. I mean they have done this and it led to some downhill of their careers somewhat.

Or when the artist try to do too much with their music and tries to pretend that they can do all music when it simply does not work. That is when you know the artists is the ARTIST anymore.

I got more in mind but when I do, I will explain later.

08-07-2013, 09:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	I've somehow managed to go a whole decade only hearing one Kanye West song ever and that was a totally butched version of some Curtis Mayfield song that he ruined, and I'm rather proud of that fact. He can go fck himself. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.*

08-08-2013, 05:27 AM	#17 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Another one who is, or was, great at selecting the right group of musicians to realise his vision was Alan Parsons. Although he did write and produce, so perhaps not the best example. Nevertheless, with the likes of Ian Bairnson, David Paton and even Eric Woolfson it was still always under Parsons' name, first as the Alan Parsons Project and later then just as his own name, although by then Woolfson had split with him. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

08-08-2013, 07:23 AM	#19 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	Well I'm willing to be proved wrong __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

08-08-2013, 07:37 AM	#20 (permalink)
Franco Pepe Kalle Mwana Nzala Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Shakopee, Minnesota Posts: 627	I would say when an artists start to copy other artists which has become a sad pattern. When that happens, you know the artist has lost his or her identity. Look at artists (dead and alive) like Mariah Carey, Michael Jackson, Usher, Prince, and others. I mean they have done this and it led to some downhill of their careers somewhat. Or when the artist try to do too much with their music and tries to pretend that they can do all music when it simply does not work. That is when you know the artists is the ARTIST anymore. I got more in mind but when I do, I will explain later. __________________ The problem with Franco Pepe Kalle is that he is a unpredictable character. There is surprising info about this man. You think he only likes Franco and Pepe Kalle but when you find out that he hears other artists, you are shock. Girls are the sexy thing that God created. Important to notice FPK.