Why do people blame Nirvana for killing Hair Metal?

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-01-2014, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

It had a short run because there wasn't really much to it. It was a label that got slapped on a bunch of not-that-similar bands just because of timing and location, but it wasn't a coherent thing that was going anywhere. The bigger picture of rock in the 90s was the rise of alternative rock, which included grunge, and which has continued on to this day metamorphosing from decent music into horribly bland garbage. As Urban mentioned above, the whole grunge/alternative thing was really the last gasp of popular rock music before the long deflation that followed.

Thanks!
I wonder what made them name it "grunge" it makes it sound demonic and I think that is awful because I think in a lot of ways the genre has a lot of soul and meditating undertones to it.

I also hear people say that the genre influnced the bubble gum bands like Panic at the Disco, My Chemical Romance, The Killers, All American Rejects, etc do you disagree with that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I'm pretty neutral about grunge's impact. I appreciate it for the large role it played in eliminating the crappy guitar soloing that had dominated most popular rock since the 70s, but overall it was just a regurgitation of the underground rock of the 80s and wasn't adding much to the equation aside from popularizing things that had been previously more niche.

I actually love a lot of the 70's rock bands.I don't really listen to rock that much but when I do I always find myself listening to the 60's or the 70's. I think the 80's is when Rock was starting to lose its soulness/authenticity. You are probably right about grunge though. It probably was already a very established underground sound.

That is what happen with Neo Soul in the mid 90's. It was a underground genre and D Angelo/Erykah Badu/etc helped popularize it. Unfortunately, since then it has not been commercial. It also had a very short peak as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I totally disagree that hair metal gets more respect than disco. Hair metal is, justifiably, much more of a subject of mockery than disco. Despite the initial backlash shortly after the disco era, disco has gone on to be regarded as great, classic party music that, in it's own subtle way, actually stood for things like racial, gender and sexual orientation equality. Hair metal is remembered for its cheesiness and ridiculousness. The very fact that we're both sitting here calling it "hair metal" is a good example of how it's perceived. Nobody called it "hair metal" back when it was popular, that's a derisive name for it that was coined after it had gone out of style, by people mocking it for its shallowness. The fact that it's the common name for it now just goes to show how people feel about it.

I respectfully disagree with this post.

Disco is the most under appreciated genre to ever exist.

Apart of the reason why it is under appreciated is because the industry is quick to cite it as a "fad" or a certain craze during a specific period. I think they are quick to label it as these things because they don't view it as a serious musical genre which I think is sad because some of the greatest music, singers, and composers were Disco singers/artists.

I LOVE The Bee Gee's and find them to be very under appreciated. They were not only great singers but fantastic songwriters. How Deep Is Your Love and Staying Alive are some of the greatest songs ever written. I could not imagine someone else singing How Deep Is You Love with the same vulnerability and souless as Brian.

Same with my girl Donna Summer who did not get inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame until her death two years ago. She was snubbed at least 5/6 times for Hair Metal bands instead. She is definitely one of the greatest female pop singers for sure. She really made Disco into an art form and is criminally underrated.

A Taste of Honey, Chic and countless others are underrated Disco bands.

They actually snubbed Chic a year ago for the RHOF induction in place of Nirvana (Not that they don't deserve to get inducted because I think there impact speaks for itself but Chic is a 70's Disco band with an eclectic sound that was out before them).

The industry always gives accolades to Hair metal bands like Guns N Roses and Kiss over Disco acts and that is problematic especially in KISS case who were just a gimmick rock band. It is pretty ridiculous the amount of accolades they get. Hair metal gets way to much credit in my opinion.

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-01-2014, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

Hard to Believe: A Kiss Covers Compilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow, thanks. I am shocked.

Pet_Sounds · 10-01-2014, 08:46 PM

No, Soulflower, you aren't mistaken. That drummer is indeed Dave Grohl of Foo Fighters. I really don't know much about Nirvana, but maybe Nevermind would be a good starting point? It's their most famous.

**Janszoon** · 10-01-2014, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

By whom? Kids/twenty-somethings/probably-many-thirty-somethings today don't care about disco one way or another. They might know a few songs, and might even know who performed those songs, but it's too far back in time to be anything more than their parents'/grandparents' music. Hair metal is about a decade closer to them, easier to listen to ironically, and had that weird renaissance back in the early-mid '00s that put Motley Crue back in the charts for a year or so. People don't respect it, but they actually do talk about it.

I'm talking about by people who are into music. As one of the thirtysomethings you just mentioned, I can certainly assure you that disco was not my grandparents' music, it was even a little too late to be my parents music, so I'm not really sure where you're going with that angle. And who cares how old it is anyway? People still discuss bebop. People still discuss ragtime. There's no statute of limitations on music that can be discussed by music fans.

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-01-2014, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

By whom? Kids/twenty-somethings/probably-many-thirty-somethings today don't care about disco one way or another. They might know a few songs, and might even know who performed those songs, but it's too far back in time to be anything more than their parents'/grandparents' music. Hair metal is about a decade closer to them, easier to listen to ironically, and had that weird renaissance back in the early-mid '00s that put Motley Crue back in the charts for a year or so. People don't respect it, but they actually do talk about it.

I agree.

It also doesn't help how the industry reinforces Hair metal by awarding and praising that era and the bands that were in it.

**Janszoon** · 10-01-2014, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Thanks!
I wonder what made them name it "grunge" it makes it sound demonic and I think that is awful because I think in a lot of ways the genre has a lot of soul and meditating undertones to it.

I also hear people say that the genre influnced the bubble gum bands like Panic at the Disco, My Chemical Romance, The Killers, All American Rejects, etc do you disagree with that?

No, I don't disagree at all. And it was called grunge because it had a dirty, grungy sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

I respectfully disagree with this post.

Disco is the most under appreciated genre to ever exist.

Apart of the reason why it is under appreciated is because the industry is quick to cite it as a "fad" or a certain craze during a specific period. I think they are quick to label it as these things because they don't view it as a serious musical genre which I think is sad because some of the greatest music, singers, and composers were Disco singers/artists.

I LOVE The Bee Gee's and find them to be very under appreciated. They were not only great singers but fantastic songwriters. How Deep Is Your Love and Staying Alive are some of the greatest songs ever written. I could not imagine someone else singing How Deep Is You Love with the same vulnerability and souless as Brian.

Same with my girl Donna Summer who did not get inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame until her death two years ago. She was snubbed at least 5/6 times for Hair Metal bands instead. She is definitely one of the greatest female pop singers for sure. She really made Disco into an art form and is criminally underrated.

A Taste of Honey, Chic and countless others are underrated Disco bands.

They actually snubbed Chic a year ago for the RHOF induction in place of Nirvana (Not that they don't deserve to get inducted because I think there impact speaks for itself but Chic is a 70's Disco band with an eclectic sound that was out before them).

The industry always gives accolades to Hair metal bands like Guns N Roses and Kiss over Disco acts and that is problematic especially in KISS case who were just a gimmick rock band. It is pretty ridiculous the amount of accolades they get. Hair metal gets way to much credit in my opinion.

The bolded seems like a pretty extreme claim to make. There are many, many genres out there in the world and few have sold as many records or packed as many dancefloors as disco. Do you really think disco is more underappreciated than chicha? Or zydeco? Or stride piano? Or narco-corridos?

Not really sure what to make of your complaints about The Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. Of course they'd induct a rock band like Nirvana before a disco band like Chic. I like Chic a lot, but they're not a rock band and weren't particularly influential on rock music so of course they're unlikely to be inducted into a rock museum.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 10-01-2014, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

Not only that it was hugely influential in dance music. I would say easily the album that got the most attention everywhere last year was Daft Punk's album, there's a tribute to Giorgio Moroder on it.
Says everything really.

Yes. I really enjoyed that album. It's interesting to see Jans, Urban and Music Whore's experiences with music in the 90's. I was too young and really only caught on to music from 1996 onwards, so I wouldn't really know whether Nirvana was the reason hair metal ended. I do believe disco is far better than hair metal to most people. Although I do have a soft spot for Def Leppard.

DwnWthVwls · 10-01-2014, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Can someone recommend a Nirvana album for someone who is just getting into their music?

In Utero and Nevermind are both excellent albums. If you can only get one I'd pick choose Nevermind.

I've actually never listened to Bleach or Incesticide though so maybe someone who knows more about them could make a better suggestion for ya.

Zombeels · 10-01-2014, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

I just think it is very interesting because there was a time rock bands like Green Day, The White Stripes, AFI, My Chemical Romance, Alien Ant Farm, All American Rejects, etc ( I can not believe I can name all these bands from the top of my head lol) ruled the commercial scene for a bit at least until the mid 00's.

Why is Nirvana overrated to you? If Kurt Cobain had not passed away so young, do you think they would still be considered icons?

Nirvana was big before Cobain died and there sound was refreshing and different than what was big the previous 6 years. Hair metal was already going stale. Nirvana came along at the right time.
I think Nirvana was overrated on a personal note. There were to many horrible songs in their catalog and most people jumped on the bandwagon. AMG originally gave Bleach one star but after Nirvana got big Bleach was all of a sudden a five star album.

Key · 10-01-2014, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

In Utero and Nevermind are both excellent albums. If you can only get one I'd pick choose Nevermind.

I've actually never listened to Bleach or Incesticide though so maybe someone who knows more about them could make a better suggestion for ya.

I actually think the exact opposite of this. If someone wants to hear the raw sound of Nirvana-esque grunge, Bleach would be the place to go. Nevermind and In Utero are too polished.

10-01-2014, 08:46 PM	#53 (permalink)
Pet_Sounds Remember the underscore Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The other side Posts: 2,489	No, Soulflower, you aren't mistaken. That drummer is indeed Dave Grohl of Foo Fighters. I really don't know much about Nirvana, but maybe Nevermind would be a good starting point? It's their most famous. __________________ Everybody's dying just to get the disease