What is music, what is not?

Chula Vista · 11-24-2014, 07:08 PM

Listen, if there was a single note played at 0'01 of the piece and then another at 4'43 of the piece it becomes music. A lame ass artsy fartsy interpretation of music but still music.

But dead silence is dead silence whether there's musicians on stage in front of an audience or not.

But this thread proves that Cage was a genius in his own weird sort of way.

Thelonious Monkey · 11-24-2014, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Listen, if there was a single note played at 0'01 of the piece and then another at 4'43 of the piece it becomes music. A lame ass artsy fartsy interpretation of music but still music.

But dead silence is dead silence whether there's musicians on stage in front of an audience or not.

But this thread proves that Cage was a genius in his own weird sort of way.

I agree. Either Cage is a genius or we are all really fucking stupid.

**Frownland** · 11-24-2014, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Listen, if there was a single note played at 0'01 of the piece and then another at 4'43 of the piece it becomes music. A lame ass artsy fartsy interpretation of music but still music.

But dead silence is dead silence whether there's musicians on stage in front of an audience or not.

But this thread proves that Cage was a genius in his own weird sort of way.

Well the silence isn't the focus of the piece, it's what's within the silence that we wouldn't normally give the time of day. And Cage has got a lot more where that came from:

Though most of his other works aren't the topic of discussion when it comes to defining music.

The Batlord · 11-24-2014, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle

From a purely compositional standpoint. But then again, it is divided into three parts, and I don't know how the writing process went down, so I don't know what I think.

How can you divide silence into three parts? That doesn't make any sense. It's just measuring time.

Josef K · 11-24-2014, 07:28 PM

The interpretation I favor is that the music being made is the music that naturally comes from the real world. Basically I agree with what Frownland is saying.

Justin, if you looked up 4'33" on Youtube, and all you got from it was "I don't hear the musicians playing," you were, in my opinion, missing the point of the piece. You talk about how it's "silent" in your house right now. Cage asks you to consider just how silent it actually is - what are the small noises that you normally wouldn't pay attention to? Why aren't they just as valid musically as, I don't know, the Beatles are? Cage attempts to make you consider these things - if you don't (which is clearly the case), there's a question of whether Cage has failed or whether you as the listener are somehow not living up to your responsibilities. (I tend to favor the first point of view, for whatever it's worth, but it's an interesting argument.)

(I'm going to cut this off here so I can get back to watching the Ferguson press conference. Frownland is saying this better than I can.)

Thelonious Monkey · 11-24-2014, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K

The interpretation I favor is that the music being made is the music that naturally comes from the real world. Basically I agree with what Frownland is saying.

Justin, if you looked up 4'33" on Youtube, and all you got from it was "I don't hear the musicians playing," you were, in my opinion, missing the point of the piece. You talk about how it's "silent" in your house right now. Cage asks you to consider just how silent it actually is - what are the small noises that you normally wouldn't pay attention to? Why aren't they just as valid musically as, I don't know, the Beatles are? Cage attempts to make you consider these things - if you don't (which is clearly the case), there's a question of whether Cage has failed or whether you as the listener are somehow not living up to your responsibilities. (I tend to favor the first point of view, for whatever it's worth, but it's an interesting argument.)

(I'm going to cut this off here so I can get back to watching the Ferguson press conference. Frownland is saying this better than I can.)

100% agree. But it isn't music. It's to make a point. And yes, that completely makes sense. But my point at the end of it all is that this can't be considered music when there is nothing fucking happening. Its basically like looking at a painting of a white blank canvas. There is nothing there, but its art. That is what I consider it as. Just another blank canvas to get you thinking real hard.

Thelonious Monkey · 11-24-2014, 07:37 PM

I guess I did miss the point to begin with, but I thought this thread was about music.

Ninetales · 11-24-2014, 07:39 PM

to those saying 4'33 isn't music: Are field recordings music? Is there such a thing as chance music?

The Batlord · 11-24-2014, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K

The interpretation I favor is that the music being made is the music that naturally comes from the real world. Basically I agree with what Frownland is saying.

If I point to a rock that doesn't make me a rock, anymore than "4'33" "pointing out" music doesn't make it music. As has been said, it's art, not music.

**Frownland** · 11-24-2014, 07:40 PM

It is music boi

11-24-2014, 07:08 PM	#241 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	Listen, if there was a single note played at 0'01 of the piece and then another at 4'43 of the piece it becomes music. A lame ass artsy fartsy interpretation of music but still music. But dead silence is dead silence whether there's musicians on stage in front of an audience or not. But this thread proves that Cage was a genius in his own weird sort of way. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

11-24-2014, 07:40 PM	#250 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	It is music boi __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-24-2014, 07:28 PM	#245 (permalink)
Josef K A Jew on a motorbike! Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 800	The interpretation I favor is that the music being made is the music that naturally comes from the real world. Basically I agree with what Frownland is saying. Justin, if you looked up 4'33" on Youtube, and all you got from it was "I don't hear the musicians playing," you were, in my opinion, missing the point of the piece. You talk about how it's "silent" in your house right now. Cage asks you to consider just how silent it actually is - what are the small noises that you normally wouldn't pay attention to? Why aren't they just as valid musically as, I don't know, the Beatles are? Cage attempts to make you consider these things - if you don't (which is clearly the case), there's a question of whether Cage has failed or whether you as the listener are somehow not living up to your responsibilities. (I tend to favor the first point of view, for whatever it's worth, but it's an interesting argument.) (I'm going to cut this off here so I can get back to watching the Ferguson press conference. Frownland is saying this better than I can.)

11-24-2014, 07:37 PM	#247 (permalink)
Thelonious Monkey Caesar is home. Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	I guess I did miss the point to begin with, but I thought this thread was about music.

11-24-2014, 07:39 PM	#248 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	to those saying 4'33 isn't music: Are field recordings music? Is there such a thing as chance music?