What is music, what is not?

Machine · 10-11-2014, 09:55 PM

There have been many bands that have pushed the boundaries of what we consider to be music, and many people have also put music into a box of what it can and cannot be. So my question to you fellow music lovers is where is the line drawn? When do we say music has to stop evolving? And just what defines something that is indeed pushing the boundaries. Is music all forms of audio, or does it go farther, or in fact are these types of audio-stimuli but into boxes that may not be broken?

Oriphiel · 10-12-2014, 05:34 AM

If a noise makes you feel something, it is music. If it makes you want to dance, then it's Rock and Roll!

Dylstew · 10-12-2014, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

If a noise makes you feel something, it is music. If it makes you want to dance, then it's Rock and Roll!

The latter is one of the worst discriptions I've heard for the genre rock and roll, to be honest.

Oriphiel · 10-12-2014, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylstew

The latter is one of the worst discriptions I've heard for the genre rock and roll, to be honest.

Yeah, sorry, don't know what I was going for there. Out of curiosity, which was the absolute worst description you've heard?

**Janszoon** · 10-12-2014, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

If a noise makes you feel something, it is music. If it makes you want to dance, then it's Rock and Roll!

So samba is rock n roll?

Trollheart · 10-12-2014, 09:05 AM

For me, personally (and I know many do not agree!) music has to have melody, or at least harmony. I have listened to some grindcore which I would not consider music, would consider noise, and yet you can listen to birds singing and that can be music. But I think to qualify as music the sound needs to have some basic structure, something you can recognise as a pattern, and it should be also something that evokes an emotional response in you, be it good or bad. I mean, I can bang dustbin lids while screaming at the top of my voice and my cat wails at the sound: is that music?

To me, no. It has to sound, I don't know, finished and have a purpose. Naturally, people will come here and say freeform jazz has no pattern, some black metal or EDM or whatever has none, and that's still music. And it is. So my definition does not stand up.

However, to me, I don't consider it music unless I can recognise it as such. Which is why sometimes some random sound (fridge, water in pipes, wind in the trees) can suddenly sound like music, though it doesn't always.

That's my take on it anyway.

**Janszoon** · 10-12-2014, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

For me, personally (and I know many do not agree!) music has to have melody, or at least harmony. I have listened to some grindcore which I would not consider music, would consider noise, and yet you can listen to birds singing and that can be music. But I think to qualify as music the sound needs to have some basic structure, something you can recognise as a pattern, and it should be also something that evokes an emotional response in you, be it good or bad. I mean, I can bang dustbin lids while screaming at the top of my voice and my cat wails at the sound: is that music?

To me, no. It has to sound, I don't know, finished and have a purpose. Naturally, people will come here and say freeform jazz has no pattern, some black metal or EDM or whatever has none, and that's still music. And it is. So my definition does not stand up.

However, to me, I don't consider it music unless I can recognise it as such. Which is why sometimes some random sound (fridge, water in pipes, wind in the trees) can suddenly sound like music, though it doesn't always.

That's my take on it anyway.

I know we've already had this conversation, but I just want to highlight the fact that grindcore does have melody (notes are being played in a deliberate sequence), harmony (it contains notes being played together in the form of chords) and structure (which is quite traditional in the sense that you can actually write it out as sheet music). I find that it does evoke an emotional response in me and it sounds like it does in you as well, though in your case that emotion is repulsion.

DwnWthVwls · 10-12-2014, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I know we've already had this conversation, but I just want to highlight the fact that grindcore does have melody (notes are being played in a deliberate sequence), harmony (it contains notes being played together in the form of chords) and structure (which is quite traditional in the sense that you can actually write it out as sheet music). I find that it does evoke an emotional response in me and it sounds like it does in you as well, though in your case that emotion is repulsion.

I don't know enough about music to understand the points you made so it really does just sound like noise to me. I remember in HS everyone was big into Dillinger Escape Plan and "math" metal. I just don't understand it.

I still call it music though. I just mute it when it gets played in plug.

grindy · 10-12-2014, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I don't know enough about music to understand the points you made so it really does just sound like noise to me. I remember in HS everyone was big into Dillinger Escape Plan and "math" metal. I just don't understand it.

I still call it music though. I just mute it when it gets played in plug.

I don't think it's about "understanding", mostly it's about what you are familiar with.
If you played relatively tame rock to somebody one hundred years ago, they might perceive it similarly to how you perceive math metal and such stuff.
Just noise.
Most people have to get into those things gradually, although it all comes down to a question of personal preference in the end.

grindy · 10-12-2014, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

For me, personally (and I know many do not agree!) music has to have melody, or at least harmony. I have listened to some grindcore which I would not consider music, would consider noise, and yet you can listen to birds singing and that can be music. But I think to qualify as music the sound needs to have some basic structure, something you can recognise as a pattern, and it should be also something that evokes an emotional response in you, be it good or bad. I mean, I can bang dustbin lids while screaming at the top of my voice and my cat wails at the sound: is that music?

To me, no. It has to sound, I don't know, finished and have a purpose. Naturally, people will come here and say freeform jazz has no pattern, some black metal or EDM or whatever has none, and that's still music. And it is. So my definition does not stand up.

However, to me, I don't consider it music unless I can recognise it as such. Which is why sometimes some random sound (fridge, water in pipes, wind in the trees) can suddenly sound like music, though it doesn't always.

That's my take on it anyway.

Why do you tend to call it "not music" instead of "music I don't like" or "music I can't get into"?
Also there is lots of music without harmony, that I think anyone would still consider music. Indian music does not employ harmony, as far as I know.

And give banging dustbin lids while screaming at the top of your voice while your cat wails at the sound a chance. It might be fun and sound cool.

10-11-2014, 09:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
Machine moon lake inc. Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Detroit Posts: 2,125	What is music, what is not? There have been many bands that have pushed the boundaries of what we consider to be music, and many people have also put music into a box of what it can and cannot be. So my question to you fellow music lovers is where is the line drawn? When do we say music has to stop evolving? And just what defines something that is indeed pushing the boundaries. Is music all forms of audio, or does it go farther, or in fact are these types of audio-stimuli but into boxes that may not be broken?

10-12-2014, 09:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	For me, personally (and I know many do not agree!) music has to have melody, or at least harmony. I have listened to some grindcore which I would not consider music, would consider noise, and yet you can listen to birds singing and that can be music. But I think to qualify as music the sound needs to have some basic structure, something you can recognise as a pattern, and it should be also something that evokes an emotional response in you, be it good or bad. I mean, I can bang dustbin lids while screaming at the top of my voice and my cat wails at the sound: is that music? To me, no. It has to sound, I don't know, finished and have a purpose. Naturally, people will come here and say freeform jazz has no pattern, some black metal or EDM or whatever has none, and that's still music. And it is. So my definition does not stand up. However, to me, I don't consider it music unless I can recognise it as such. Which is why sometimes some random sound (fridge, water in pipes, wind in the trees) can suddenly sound like music, though it doesn't always. That's my take on it anyway. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

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10-12-2014, 05:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	If a noise makes you feel something, it is music. If it makes you want to dance, then it's Rock and Roll!