Talent

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-09-2016, 02:47 PM

I think that one important thing is often forgotten, especially in, errh... geekier circles (the metal community, the prog community, this community), namely the importance of playing with feel.

Go to a really good, respected, cello teacher for instance. Then learn to play super difficult pieces fast, precise and without flaw. Most likely, the teacher will tell you that you are terrible and need more practice. This is because playing with feel is just as important as technical skill. It's 50%/50%, but most prog/metal supposed "virtuosos" have very little skill in the expressive part of that equation.

Basically, I'm saying that in my mind, most highly regarded prog/metal "gods" are of neglible talent in my eyes.

This goes for singers as well. Hell, just to be a bastard and push the issue a bit more, I'll divulge that I think Opeth is a mediocre band because they play like sleepy robots. At least pre- Heritage.

Trollheart · 01-09-2016, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

I think that one important thing is often forgotten, especially in, errh... geekier circles (the metal community, the prog community, this community), namely the importance of playing with feel.

Go to a really good, respected, cello teacher for instance. Then learn to play super difficult pieces fast, precise and without flaw. Most likely, the teacher will tell you that you are terrible and need more practice. This is because playing with feel is just as important as technical skill. It's 50%/50%, but most prog/metal supposed "virtuosos" have very little skill in the expressive part of that equation.

Basically, I'm saying that in my mind, most highly regarded prog/metal "gods" are of neglible talent in my eyes.

This goes for singers as well. Hell, just to be a bastard and push the issue a bit more, I'll divulge that I think Opeth is a mediocre band because they play like sleepy robots. At least pre- Heritage.

Robots don't sleep.

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-09-2016, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Robots don't sleep.

They do if they'v been programmed to!

My computer goes in to sleep mode when I take too long bathroom breaks, so why not?

grindy · 01-09-2016, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

I think that one important thing is often forgotten, especially in, errh... geekier circles (the metal community, the prog community, this community), namely the importance of playing with feel.

Go to a really good, respected, cello teacher for instance. Then learn to play super difficult pieces fast, precise and without flaw. Most likely, the teacher will tell you that you are terrible and need more practice. This is because playing with feel is just as important as technical skill. It's 50%/50%, but most prog/metal supposed "virtuosos" have very little skill in the expressive part of that equation.

Basically, I'm saying that in my mind, most highly regarded prog/metal "gods" are of neglible talent in my eyes.

This goes for singers as well. Hell, just to be a bastard and push the issue a bit more, I'll divulge that I think Opeth is a mediocre band because they play like sleepy robots. At least pre- Heritage.

Isn't 'playing with feel' a technical skill as well? It's about controlling subtle nuances of the sound after all.
As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for different aesthetics.

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-09-2016, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Isn't 'playing with feel' a technical skill as well? It's about controlling subtle nuances of the sound after all.
As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for a different aesthetic.

"Isn't 'playing with feel' a technical skill as well? It's about controlling subtle nuances of the sound after all."

It's semantics, but yes, I can agree on that. This would still mean that missing that part is having half the required skillset in my eyes. Maybe even the most important part.

"As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for a different aesthetic."
I've sometimes wondered about this. Do they play soullessly because they actively choose to, or do they just not experience that particular facet of the music and, hence, feel no need to play with feeling. I know not everyone prioritizes this thing as highly as I do, but to me it is absolutely necessary for music to be good, that it is played with feeling. Which is admittedly a hard thing to define.

grindy · 01-09-2016, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

"Isn't 'playing with feel' a technical skill as well? It's about controlling subtle nuances of the sound after all."

It's semantics, but yes, I can agree on that. This would still mean that missing that part is having half the required skillset in my eyes. Maybe even the most important part.

"As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for a different aesthetic."
I've sometimes wondered about this. Do they play soullessly because they actively choose to, or do they just not experience that facet of the music and, hence, feel no need to play with feeling.

I don't enjoy much conventional shredding, but I do like some music that is so stuffed with notes, that there simply isn't time for the notes to have much nuance.
I wouldn't necessarily say that such music authomatically has no soul and feeling. Such compositions can be quite exhilaratingly beautiful in their overwhelmingness.
As I said, different aesthetics.
I get what you mean though, speed doesn't make a lame composition better.

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-09-2016, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

I don't enjoy much conventional shredding, but I do like some music that is so stuffed with notes, that there simply isn't time for the notes to have much nuance.
I wouldn't necessarily say that such music authomatically has no soul and feeling. Such compositions can be quite exhilaratingly beautiful in their overwhelmingness.
As I said, different aesthetics.

I kind of see what you mean. I quite like the Chthonic album Bu-Tík for instance, and that album is pretty much overbearing wall of sound tactics most of the time. It is beautiful because of how it is composed and due to the sounds chosen to express said composition.

I'd still argue that it could be better if some other band covered the whole album and played it in a less robotic manner, with less sterile production. The guitarist is still very talented in my eyes, though, since he clearly puts his heart into the guitar solos.

I guess what my rambling boils down to is this: I still think talent is also about expression, but not very nuanced music can be good, which is separate from the issue of talent.

So am I saying it doesn't take a lot of talent (after my own definition thereof) to play extreme metal well? I guess so... Please don't hurt me!

grindy · 01-09-2016, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

I kind of see what you mean. I quite like the Chthonic album Bu-Tík for instance, and that album is pretty much overbearing wall of sound tactics most of the time. It is beautiful because of how it is composed and due to the sounds chosen to express said composition.

I'd still argue that it could be better if some other band covered the whole album and played it in a less robotic manner, with less sterile production. The guitarist is still very talented in my eyes, though, since he clearly puts his heart into the guitar solos.

I guess what my rambling boils down to is this: I still think talent is also about expression, but not very nuanced music can be good, which is separate from the issue of talent.

So am I saying it doesn't take a lot of talent (after my own definition thereof) to play extreme metal well? I guess so... Please don't hurt me!

99,99% of shreddy extreme metal bores me to pieces, so I won't hurt you...

Spoiler for ...:

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-09-2016, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

99,99% of shreddy extreme metal bores me to pieces, so I won't hurt you...

Spoiler for ...:

I'm still changing my locks, but good to know.

Chula Vista · 01-09-2016, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

"As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for a different aesthetic."
I've sometimes wondered about this. Do they play soullessly because they actively choose to, or do they just not experience that particular facet of the music and, hence, feel no need to play with feeling.

Shred and feeling are not mutually exclusive for ****s sake.

01-09-2016, 02:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
~~MicShazam~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Aalborg Posts: 7,634	I think that one important thing is often forgotten, especially in, errh... geekier circles (the metal community, the prog community, this community), namely the importance of playing with feel. Go to a really good, respected, cello teacher for instance. Then learn to play super difficult pieces fast, precise and without flaw. Most likely, the teacher will tell you that you are terrible and need more practice. This is because playing with feel is just as important as technical skill. It's 50%/50%, but most prog/metal supposed "virtuosos" have very little skill in the expressive part of that equation. Basically, I'm saying that in my mind, most highly regarded prog/metal "gods" are of neglible talent in my eyes. This goes for singers as well. Hell, just to be a bastard and push the issue a bit more, I'll divulge that I think Opeth is a mediocre band because they play like sleepy robots. At least pre- Heritage.