Politics In Music
 

I love a band called Rage Against The Machine. They easily could of been one of my all time favorite bands. There is one issue I have with their music. Their politics. I disagree with them in every way possible when it comes to there politics. Which causes it to be extremely hard for me to listen to one of there albums all the way through. After a bit it starts to feel like they are calling me an idiot for believing in concepts they don't like. I was just curious if anyone else has ever had an experience like this.

RATM is one of your all-time favorite bands but you struggle to make it through one of their albums? Weird.

Did you used to agree with their politics but have evolved, and so there's some friction between you and your erstwhile favorite band? Or what? What's going on?

Yeah I have similar issues with S.O.D./M.O.D. I love the music but hate homophobic/racist lyrics. I've heard they're supposed to be ironic but even if that is the case it puts me off the music.

Are you 12?

I never agreed with their politics. I struggle to get through their album because I just get tired of hearing what after awhile begins to feel like someone calling me an idiot for not agreeing with them. I love Zach De La Rocha's rap. I think Tom Morello is one of the greatest guitarists out there to date. His style has had a lot of influence on my own guitar playing. Tim Commerford's bass work is just incredible to me. The melding of the four individuals given instruments makes just amazing music. But the lyrical content becomes a nuisance after awhile because of my difference in beliefs. That's all there is to it.

Exactly! It makes me also have to wonder if that is truly a viable option for bands.

Are you Paul Ryan?

Yep. You caught me. I'm Paul Ryan. Speaker Of The House. Hahahahaha.

Too much politics everywhere - TV, radio, music, sport. Make love - not politics!

If you could actually do that and not have your liberty takem from you while you sit back and zone out Id agree.

So you believe in the police abusing their power? When we go to war because an administration lied about weapons of mass destruction? When we detain anyone we choose at Guantanamo even if they've never been found guilty of anything? You believe in torture, and illegal search and seizure? You don't mind the gross inequalities that currently exist in this country, or the fact that most politicians are bought and paid for by big corporations?

Your'e OK with all of that stuff?

Ummm... This isn't suppose to be a discussion on politics. Just a discussion of what politics in music and what it causes some people to say. But since you want to make it political I will bite.
Morello said that we aren't a free country because people have to work for a living. Huh? That's odd. Cause you don't have to get a job. You don't have do anything. As long as your actions do not infringe upon the rights of someone else you don't have to do a damn thing.
Not to mention the bands hypocrisy. They're millionaires. They have millions of dollars but then they turn around and say that the rich should give there money back to the poor. I don't see them doing that. They protest things that are ridiculous and the things they are against that actually make some sense they do nothing about. like all the stuff you mentioned. They hold a benefit that does nothing for the actual cause and the problem keeps on going and they act like they tried to do something about it. All they did was make some music to bitch about it then keep all there money and go against everything they preached. And what gross inequalities? Everyone in this country is equal. It's illegal to not hire someone because they're black. It's illegal to pay women less then men. The law is at the point where we are the exact same. I am yet to see any situation of gross inequalities in this country in the last twenty years.

Uhm, ok.

I totally get where your coming from, politics is great in music if your a true believer, but otherwise it kind of ruins the music.

When I was a teenager the Dead Kennedys were one of my favourite bands, in part because I loved the sound in the music, but also because they spoke to me as a disenchanted youth.

Today I can't stand listening to them because of the lyrics, and I personally think Jello Biafra is a left wing loonie, wish I had a dad growing up to stear me clear of that garbage.

:( I hear ya. Same here. No dad growing up to lead me.

Oh come on, you know you still like Plastic Surgery Disasters.

Interesting. I'm not, and never have been, a super huge DK fan but I still like them—as well as other Jello projects—and I find Jello's lyrics entertaining. For me they've aged well because they're humorous and sarcastic, unlike someone like Zack de la Rocha whose self-righteously earnest lyrics I've come to find more annoying over time.

It's funny how some of the stuff you like when you're young is in reality terrible. I use to love extreme metal. It was my favorite genre hands down as a teenager. I recently listened to some of it and said to myself, "Why did I like this? It's just an endless series of rolling the bass drum." Maybe that's the cynic in me. Lol. I'm getting off topic. Were the Dead Kennedys for you a band that inspired you at all as well?

Well, without delving to deep into my personal life, I was indoctrinated to hardcore left wing politics at a very young age (13-14) so there might be some hidden resentment there, as it was primarily my exposure to punk rock that led me down that path.

I still like the music of the Dead Kennedys though, I just don't care for the lyrics.

The party says there's 5!

He did? I find RATM kind of silly in general but it's hard for me to imagine him saying that. What was the actual quote?

"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

I was took away is that he's saying your not actually free.

Oh ok, so your paraphrasing wasn't really what he was saying. He was actually talking about how the power that corporations exert in the US impedes people's ability have options in how they make a living for themselves. It's sort of melodramatic the way he puts it, but it's also definitely not what you were making it out to be.

Maybe it's not what I made it out to be. But it's just what I took it as when I first read it. Sorry if it was a bit misleading. Not my intention.

I mean, there's a meaningful discussion to be had over whether or not there is a better system (which isn't something I've really made up my mind on yet), but I sort of can't fault the basic line of thinking here. It seems to pretty accurately describe how wage labour works.

Basically, in a capitalist economy, one (amongst the working class) usually meets their needs et cetera through work. There exists a consequence for not working: poverty (for a pretty huge chunk of the population). Therefore, even though any individual employee-worker relationship might be voluntary, it's awfully hard to construe the whole system as completely voluntary and lacking in coercion. An (admittedly exaggerated) example that's pretty commonly used is this: if slaves were given the only the freedom to choose their master, would they cease being slaves and become "free"? Obviously not.

Even if you don't agree to the conclusion that the radical-left reaches, and whether or not you think this possibly minor coercion is acceptable, this understanding of the worker-employed relationship seems pretty damn hard to invalidate.

Wow that's a blast from the past, sounds like something that was written out of the 1940's, he must have been very young at the time.

The problem I have with Rage Against the Machine is that they talk the talk but don't walk the walk. These self proclaimed socialists were all to happy to sign up to a big corporate record label and become multimillionaires.

To Jello Biafra's credit, he never sold out, he's stayed indie his whole life despite corporate offers. Now that's a true commie, love him or hate him, you have to respect that.

I already said something similar.

I honestly don't know anything by DK. So I can't really comment on their music.

I don't mind say liberal politics in music like Neil Young or R.E.M. but I have a problem with people on the hard left who preach the evils of capitalism and American Imperialism, while becoming millionaires on a big corporate record label (Rage against the machine, anti flag)

Music is kind of different now though, since the collapse of the industry. Outside of big pop stars like Miley Cyrus and Kayne West, I think most new artists are pretty small scale now?

^Yeah, RATM are certainly hypocrites, but plenty of that sort of political music is still underground.

I kind of hope it stays that way. When I listen to music, I don't want to be bombarded with political messages. I want to hear a beautiful sound with a wonderful construction of effects.

When music (or any art) gets too political, it easily crosses over into the realm of propaganda. I'm of the opinion that art and propaganda cannot coexist, so if it crosses over, it ceases to be art. And I stop listening.

Battleship Potemkin. Your argument is invalid.

So art can never take positions on things? Sounds to me like you want art to be disconnected from reality. There are a whole lot of topics that, no matter what side you take, are inherently political. Should art not be allowed to tackle these issues?

Not at all, DeadChannel. Notice I wrote that it can cross the line. It doesn't always. I left my comment vague on purpose since there are shades of grey between art and propaganda. I think that art should strive first and foremost for two things: self-expression and communication. Some works lean one way, some the other, and the best, in my opinion, blend both perfectly. Of course politics might come in, but when things become completely political, that's when the line is crossed into propaganda. It's a tightrope walk.

Alright, fair enough, I think I can pretty well agree to that. Imo, though, I think that, as long as the thing is good of its own accord, I'm pretty okay with a lot of overt political themes, even ones that I disagree with. I'm personally as drawn to politics in music as I am in real life.

A good example of what I'm talking about is Green Day's American Idiot, not just the song but the whole album. Now, I think it's a masterpiece, but it skates really close to the line of propaganda on a couple songs. The title track is probably the most obvious example.

For me it's about the intention of the work: does this exist to make a point, or does this exist for art's sake. If it already works on other levels, than no amount of politics will change this. Even if American Idiot was a Neo-Nazi song, it'd still be hella catchy.

But isn't that the danger if it's catchy and it's propaganda?

Perhaps, although I'm not sure that immediately invalidates those portions on the song, artistically.

This is something I struggle with a little bit, listening to music I like but ideologically disagree with. For instance, I really can't get behind a lot of Danny Brown's views, particularly on women etc. Nevertheless, the dude has got one of the most unique flows in the game, and raps over beats that I really dig, so I tolerate it. On the other hand, I can vibe with a lot of the politics espoused by Lupe Fiasco, but I really don't enjoy his music very much.

I'd like to think that people can think for themselves, and be critical of the views of their favourite bands or whatever, but idk. Although I totally understand being turned off of a thing by the politics, especially since this ****'s subjective anyway.

Like, for me, even if I agree with the politics, I still cringe at it being injected into music. Lemme go back to American Idiot. I agree with them that Americans are idiots by and large and that rednecks are idiots and if you want to bomb people in other countries because 'Murica then you're an idiot and if you want to kill fags then you're an idiot.

I agree even more with "Jesus of Suburbia". He is, indeed, a lie. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a hypocrite (yours truly included). But for me, the problem is that I see such art racing towards that propaganda line.

You know what? Just typing it out helped me understand my position better. Politics are so much a product of their times, so if an artist puts too much politics in his art, it dates it. I guess that's partly why I find it distasteful. Art should be eternal. The other part being that music is the easiest way to brainwash people, so if you inject politics into something catchy or popular, you can sway a lot of listeners.

So your saying that art should be less advert about the politic? Not show it outright?