The transcendence of music

JGuy Grungeman · 08-09-2016, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

You're missing my larger point that judging things by the wrong criteria when analyzing can lead to people misinterpreting what makes something good because it doesn't match up with the arbitrary fixed idea of what's good or isn't. Also, I've already mentioned that it can be helpful for someone who needs to categorize everything, so you continuing to spout off your experience isn't really that relevant.

You missed what I said. Opening up to a new genre means forgetting about what makes your previous experience good like hard rock or folk, and trying something new like hip hop by trying to find what makes hip hop good instead of comparing it to the same criteria you'd use for rock, which would be unfair to the genre and to the user.

**Frownland** · 08-09-2016, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

You missed what I said. Opening up to a new genre means forgetting about what makes your previous experience good like hard rock or folk, and trying something new like hip hop by trying to find what makes hip hop good instead of comparing it to the same criteria you'd use for rock, which would be unfair to the genre and to the user.

Therefore "knowing what to look for" is not necessarily a good thing when listening to new music. I get the feeling that you are still missing my larger point because you're agreeing with it but presenting it like a counterargument.

JGuy Grungeman · 08-09-2016, 04:17 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you missed my point again by assuming I said one knows what to look for when trying new music. You know what to look for when you've heard enough of that music to do so, which gives you rthe experience needed to immediately decipher the music later. I first played Loveless with the rockist mind, and I didn't like it. Months later, I tried it again by opening myself to a new style of music, and I wasn't entirely sure what to think since shoegaze was still entirely new to me. So right after Loveless, I played MBV. I liked it because I was more used to what shoegaze was and had not gone into it with the rockist mind that I had. So I played Loveless again immediately after, and I put it in my top 100 and it's still there from, this day on with a perfect 100.

Basically, my experience went as follows:
1. try the new genre by trying to get an idea of its sound without judging it like I would judge an album from my usual experience (rock, pop, folk, etc.)
2. Once I've gotten an idea of the sound, try another album in the genre and compare the two and find out what's similar. It's likely the first album one tries won't be that highly rated, but you might like the second one more. Heck, on the second shoegaze album I heard, MBV, I realized what shoegaze was about. It only took two albums, and they were by the same band. Since then, I've been able to call myself a fan of MBV, Slowdive, Beaulieu Porch, grungegaze, and Ringo Deathstarr. The same thing happened with black metal recently. I tried something new and did not attempt to judge it by anything else. The first album was At the Heart of Winter. I gave it 8. It took two more black metal albums before I could finally give one a five star rating and understand its sound.

It may take some longer, some quicker, and sometimes it entirely depends on the genre. But overall, having a different mindset can really help. I grew from a rockist mind to one open to determining why genres are so unique, and that helped to develop my love of the concept of genre tagging (although I admit there are WAY too many tags).

**Frownland** · 08-09-2016, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

That's because the listener knows what to look for.

.

JGuy Grungeman · 08-09-2016, 04:20 PM

After he's heard enough. Forgive me if I did not make that clear, but I thought it was pretty obvious. Although, you've misinterpreted my arguments many times in the past.

**Frownland** · 08-09-2016, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I've already mentioned that it can be helpful for someone who needs to categorize everything, so you continuing to spout off your experience isn't really that relevant.

.

Blank. · 08-09-2016, 04:28 PM

Jesus christ. Can you two just kiss and get it over with already!

**Frownland** · 08-09-2016, 04:29 PM

This is what a music discussion looks like. Get your cameras out, this is a rare one.

JGuy Grungeman · 08-09-2016, 04:31 PM

It still appeared that you missed a couple details, so I was just clarifying them.

Now that we have that out of the way, I'm not gonna kiss him. How about a manly handshake that will break each other's hands?

~~MicShazam~~ · 08-09-2016, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

This is what a music discussion looks like. Get your cameras out, this is a rare one.

This website would be more fun if it was less rare.

08-09-2016, 04:17 PM	#33 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you missed my point again by assuming I said one knows what to look for when trying new music. You know what to look for when you've heard enough of that music to do so, which gives you rthe experience needed to immediately decipher the music later. I first played Loveless with the rockist mind, and I didn't like it. Months later, I tried it again by opening myself to a new style of music, and I wasn't entirely sure what to think since shoegaze was still entirely new to me. So right after Loveless, I played MBV. I liked it because I was more used to what shoegaze was and had not gone into it with the rockist mind that I had. So I played Loveless again immediately after, and I put it in my top 100 and it's still there from, this day on with a perfect 100. Basically, my experience went as follows: 1. try the new genre by trying to get an idea of its sound without judging it like I would judge an album from my usual experience (rock, pop, folk, etc.) 2. Once I've gotten an idea of the sound, try another album in the genre and compare the two and find out what's similar. It's likely the first album one tries won't be that highly rated, but you might like the second one more. Heck, on the second shoegaze album I heard, MBV, I realized what shoegaze was about. It only took two albums, and they were by the same band. Since then, I've been able to call myself a fan of MBV, Slowdive, Beaulieu Porch, grungegaze, and Ringo Deathstarr. The same thing happened with black metal recently. I tried something new and did not attempt to judge it by anything else. The first album was At the Heart of Winter. I gave it 8. It took two more black metal albums before I could finally give one a five star rating and understand its sound. It may take some longer, some quicker, and sometimes it entirely depends on the genre. But overall, having a different mindset can really help. I grew from a rockist mind to one open to determining why genres are so unique, and that helped to develop my love of the concept of genre tagging (although I admit there are WAY too many tags). __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

08-09-2016, 04:20 PM	#35 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	After he's heard enough. Forgive me if I did not make that clear, but I thought it was pretty obvious. Although, you've misinterpreted my arguments many times in the past. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

08-09-2016, 04:29 PM	#38 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	This is what a music discussion looks like. Get your cameras out, this is a rare one. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

08-09-2016, 04:31 PM	#39 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	It still appeared that you missed a couple details, so I was just clarifying them. Now that we have that out of the way, I'm not gonna kiss him. How about a manly handshake that will break each other's hands? __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

08-09-2016, 04:28 PM	#37 (permalink)
Blank. Jacob Sartorius Join Date: May 2016 Location: Dank memes Posts: 4,034	Jesus christ. Can you two just kiss and get it over with already!