The transcendence of music

Terrapin_Station · 08-11-2016, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Do you mean objectivist like Ayn Rand? I don't need some lofty excuse to be a selfish *******, I just am

.

No--just someone who believes that aesthetic value (in this case) is or can be objective rather than subjective. Or in other words, someone who believes that music being good or bad can be independent of how individuals feel about the music in question.

**Frownland** · 08-11-2016, 10:23 AM

Eh, to a very very very small degree, yes. I largely think that it's almost entirely impossible to overcome our biases towards forms of music though, which means that it's better to call it subjective because of how difficult it would be to establish objectivity on art. I've always been interested in researching music taste through neuroscience and seeing if there's some kind of "universal song" that evades culture and appeals to the human brain on an almost instinctual level. It'd be really interesting if we can circumvent composition for some music and create it on a rationalized level based on that information. We already know some things like repetition being appealing, but I think the field needs to dig deeper and see if maybe there is a level of objectivity to music.

Terrapin_Station · 08-11-2016, 12:37 PM

Well, (near) universality would be different than objectivity though. For one, say it's near universal to feel that a particular piece of music is good, and of course that would be due to brain functioning and so on. But along comes someone whose brain works differently, and he feels that that same piece sucks. He's not wrong in that just because he feels differently. He's just unusual.

If aesthetic quality were objective, though, he should be wrong. He'd be perceiving the quality of the piece incorrectly, and he should be just as wrong that it sucks as he'd be if he insisted that the moon were made of cheese.

**Frownland** · 08-11-2016, 12:48 PM

The universality thing was more of a tangent that got kicked off by my idea that establishing the objectivity as more than a firmly stated subjectivity could be done by that type of research.

JGuy Grungeman · 08-11-2016, 12:56 PM

I love it when conversation gets deeper than Evangelion

YorkeDaddy · 08-11-2016, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

I love it when conversation gets deeper than I do in dat pussy

aylmao

TechnicLePanther · 08-19-2016, 06:30 AM

I almost want to introduce my children to Merzbow before any other music, just to see what would happen. (Also, I don't have any children.)

Terrapin_Station · 08-19-2016, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnicLePanther

I almost want to introduce my children to Merzbow before any other music, just to see what would happen. (Also, I don't have any children.)

Whatever you immerse them in as infants will have an impact. I come from a family of music lovers, and from the time I was a baby--I was born in the early 60s--my dad constantly played pre British Invasion rock 'n' roll, doo-wop, R&B, blues, country, etc., while my mom was very on top of current pop, so she was following the Beach Boys, Beatles, Stones, Who, Dylan, etc. right from the start and I heard that stuff all the time, too. My older sister and an uncle were into popular music as well as more obscure stuff, psychedelic music, early hard rock/metal, etc., and my grandfather was heavily into classical, jazz and pre-rock pop. So I grew up listening to all of that stuff rather than kids music or anything like that.

TechnicLePanther · 08-20-2016, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

Whatever you immerse them in as infants will have an impact. I come from a family of music lovers, and from the time I was a baby--I was born in the early 60s--my dad constantly played pre British Invasion rock 'n' roll, doo-wop, R&B, blues, country, etc., while my mom was very on top of current pop, so she was following the Beach Boys, Beatles, Stones, Who, Dylan, etc. right from the start and I heard that stuff all the time, too. My older sister and an uncle were into popular music as well as more obscure stuff, psychedelic music, early hard rock/metal, etc., and my grandfather was heavily into classical, jazz and pre-rock pop. So I grew up listening to all of that stuff rather than kids music or anything like that.

lol nice

Norg · 08-20-2016, 10:47 AM

OP was written so novel and hipster like and the Grammer was top notch I couldn't quite read it right can u dumb it down 4 me LOL

08-11-2016, 10:23 AM	#52 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Eh, to a very very very small degree, yes. I largely think that it's almost entirely impossible to overcome our biases towards forms of music though, which means that it's better to call it subjective because of how difficult it would be to establish objectivity on art. I've always been interested in researching music taste through neuroscience and seeing if there's some kind of "universal song" that evades culture and appeals to the human brain on an almost instinctual level. It'd be really interesting if we can circumvent composition for some music and create it on a rationalized level based on that information. We already know some things like repetition being appealing, but I think the field needs to dig deeper and see if maybe there is a level of objectivity to music. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

08-11-2016, 12:48 PM	#54 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	The universality thing was more of a tangent that got kicked off by my idea that establishing the objectivity as more than a firmly stated subjectivity could be done by that type of research. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

08-11-2016, 12:56 PM	#55 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	I love it when conversation gets deeper than Evangelion __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

08-19-2016, 06:30 AM	#57 (permalink)
TechnicLePanther and the livin' is easy... Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: New York Posts: 1,997	I almost want to introduce my children to Merzbow before any other music, just to see what would happen. (Also, I don't have any children.) __________________ Many have tried to destroy it... but... true evil never dies. It is only... REBORN *SUGGEST ME AN ALBUM* - I'm probably not going to listen to it but I will if you bother me enough.

08-11-2016, 12:37 PM	#53 (permalink)
Terrapin_Station Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: NYC Man Posts: 877	Well, (near) universality would be different than objectivity though. For one, say it's near universal to feel that a particular piece of music is good, and of course that would be due to brain functioning and so on. But along comes someone whose brain works differently, and he feels that that same piece sucks. He's not wrong in that just because he feels differently. He's just unusual. If aesthetic quality were objective, though, he should be wrong. He'd be perceiving the quality of the piece incorrectly, and he should be just as wrong that it sucks as he'd be if he insisted that the moon were made of cheese.

08-20-2016, 10:47 AM	#60 (permalink)
Norg Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,344	OP was written so novel and hipster like and the Grammer was top notch I couldn't quite read it right can u dumb it down 4 me LOL