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Old 06-05-2017, 02:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
I'm too anal to be find boring ass ICP entertaining.

In response to the OP, I think it's hard to say. I find a lot of innovation going on today but not to the extent of creating a scene around it, which I think was more common in the earlier period. It might have something to do with the medium, with people being more likely to listen to physical albums than bandcamp or soundcloud streams. I think that factor is taking away from the local music community and in the face of all the extra music out there, it's harder to make an impact on the music world in the same way that you used to, but it's also easier in some ways a la Death Grips and such. So maybe pioneering was more prevalent back then.

Tl;Dr I have no ****ing idea which one is better or more innovative. I like them both a lot in different ways.
In the post 2000 era what music do you find especially pioneering (scene or no scene)?

I'd say we're going to need more than Death Grips.

Good post, btw. The impact of online streaming is a crucial component to this conversation.
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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No offense taken. Nostalgia is obviously an important part of this discussion. Perhaps we're presently in a state of perpetual nostalgia. Or older developments seem more revolutionary to me because I was younger. What if we took another 17 year chunk 66-83? To me the first two 17 year chunks both saw more development. Maybe the obsession with newness and novelty became dull. Or maybe my hypothesis (stolen from Mark Fisher, btw) won't stand up to scrutiny.
Well if went by my favorite from a personal taste I would pick '66 to around about '83. I don't know why it's broken into seventeen years, but if I tried to be unbiased as possible I would still pick '66 to '82. During that era there was (what is called) "Freak Beat," Psychedelic Rock, Soul, Acid Rock, Acid Folk, Folk Rock, Progressive Folk, Progressive Rock, Blues Rock, Uk Glam Rock, Soft Rock, experimental music/experimental Rock, Dawg music, electronic music, Southern Rock, (early forms of Metal), Art Rock, Punk Rock, Disco, Post-Punk, New Wave, Funk, Jazz-Fusion, NWOBHM, minimal synth, Reggae/Dub, and a few others. I am also a fan of music from 2000-2017, and I notice that a lot of bands take inspiration from music '66 to '83. Even hip hop samples their break beats from the drum breaks on late 60s R&B records.

Even during those years the method of recording changed as well. That time period saw the end of mono tape recording, to the birth of digital recording. George Martin said that Sgt. Pepper was one of the last albums recorded on (what he called) a three track at EMI. The first CD released was in Japan was 52nd Street by Billy Joel in 1982.
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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The 17 year thing is just to use 2000 as an arbitrary round number cut off point.

You make a great case for the oldest 17 year set. It's also very interesting to consider the impact sampling has had on how people think of new music. It's also interesting to consider what Frown said about there being an actual physical scene as opposed to a more online less need for face-to-face experience. Maybe the less visceral online experience makes people less inclined to be a part of something they feel is revolutionary.
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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In the post 2000 era what music do you find especially pioneering (scene or no scene)?

I'd say we're going to need more than Death Grips.

Good post, btw. The impact of online streaming is a crucial component to this conversation.
I wouldn't equate innovation with pioneering, since the latter implies an impact on the music world at large and it's too early to say tbh.

As far as innovation, Matana Roberts' Coin Coin Chapter Three is a great example. I see a lot of innovation in hip hop, like Moor Mother extrapolating on Matana's and Sun Ra's ideas through the lens of industrial hip hop. Shabazz Palaces is another good example. Outside of hip hop, there's The Caretaker's step forward for turntablism, Richard Dawson's new bent on Irish folk, Kurushimi's blackened samurai metal (that isn't as cheesy or as racist as that sounds), who are building on ideas from Zu. Bands like Ehnahre, Yowie, Wolves in Sheepskin, and Jute Gyte are taking metal all kinds of cool places. I also like Stian Westerhus's new album quite a bit because of how new yet familiar it sounded to me.

There's all kinds of cool stuff.
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I also like Stian Westerhus's new album quite a bit because of how new yet familiar it sounded to me.
There's a **** ton to respond to in that post but first I want to say Pitch Black Star Spangled is a GREAT record.
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:57 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm leaning toward 83-00. But I think it's lot easier to pick out what was truly pioneering once a significant amount of time has passed so I my opinion is probably colored by that.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:03 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Fair enough.

Let's grant Frown this excellent point

Quote:
I wouldn't equate innovation with pioneering, since the latter implies an impact on the music world at large and it's too early to say tbh.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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On Matana Roberts I found this interview where she seems to be addressing a similar issue


BOMB Magazine — Matana Roberts by Christopher Stackhouse

Quote:

I’m not certain that pure sound can reflect that [chronological narrative] but I am certain that abstraction can. I find history so nonsensical in many ways. To me history is not linear; it’s on this constant, cyclical repeat. And that is one of the things that fascinates me about working with sound and the traditions that I’m trying to deal with.

...


the idea of pure puts on a colonialist filter for me. Merce Cunningham and John Cage, both of whom I admire, also dealt with this question in their works.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Overall music definitely evolved more between 1983-2000. I can find songs from 2000 that sound similar to typical music from today, but less so music from 1983 that sounded like typical music in 2000. The same goes in terms of fashion.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:44 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Overall music definitely evolved more between 1983-2000. I can find songs from 2000 that sound similar to typical music from today, but less so music from 1983 that sounded like typical music in 2000.
Why do you think that is?
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