1983-2000 Vs 2000-2017

The Batlord · 06-05-2017, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

ICP is funny, colorful, brilliantly entertaining, and surprisingly very well produced. I actually consider them a litmus test band. If you can't admit ICP is fun take the ****ing stick out of your ass. I suspect people who claim not to like them are more concerned with being associated with their admittedly immature fanbase than their honest aesthetic concerns. I love Juggalos and think there really is a difference a Juggalo and a Juffalo. I love that Down with the Clown Till I'm Dead in the Ground. Right up there with the Kiss Army and Dead Heads. What a fanbase! Remember those kids whose baby died and they had a big Juggalo funeral? Wow. It's like Dimebag in the Kiss Koffin! YouTube clips Tia Tequila being harangued at the gathering. lol. I like her, too. She thought her tits would win the crowd over but these weren't no Hell's Angels! But the bands on the label... I have to try to go that far. I guess ICP did what needed doing. I don't need a bunch of KISS clones either.

I had some good times with juggalos, but god damn can it get retarded around juggalos! And that's only the second time I've ever heard "juffalo" lol. I'd begun to think it wasn't a thing.

And hell yeah to your post. "Down with the Clown" is fit as ****.

**Frownland** · 06-05-2017, 01:51 PM

I'm too anal to be find boring ass ICP entertaining.

In response to the OP, I think it's hard to say. I find a lot of innovation going on today but not to the extent of creating a scene around it, which I think was more common in the earlier period. It might have something to do with the medium, with people being more likely to listen to physical albums than bandcamp or soundcloud streams. I think that factor is taking away from the local music community and in the face of all the extra music out there, it's harder to make an impact on the music world in the same way that you used to, but it's also easier in some ways a la Death Grips and such. So maybe pioneering was more prevalent back then.

Tl;Dr I have no ****ing idea which one is better or more innovative. I like them both a lot in different ways.

OccultHawk · 06-05-2017, 01:59 PM

Well I'm way too old but whenever I would strike up conversations with their fans mostly I'd get shock that a fat old **** like me would like them but once I could rattle off a few songs they would be like...hmmmm... but I would make it clear that I was merely a casual fan and by no means am I claiming Juggalo status. I didn't want any of that Juffalo beat down for false claiming.

OccultHawk · 06-05-2017, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I'm too anal to be find boring ass ICP entertaining.

In response to the OP, I think it's hard to say. I find a lot of innovation going on today but not to the extent of creating a scene around it, which I think was more common in the earlier period. It might have something to do with the medium, with people being more likely to listen to physical albums than bandcamp or soundcloud streams. I think that factor is taking away from the local music community and in the face of all the extra music out there, it's harder to make an impact on the music world in the same way that you used to, but it's also easier in some ways a la Death Grips and such. So maybe pioneering was more prevalent back then.

Tl;Dr I have no ****ing idea which one is better or more innovative. I like them both a lot in different ways.

In the post 2000 era what music do you find especially pioneering (scene or no scene)?

I'd say we're going to need more than Death Grips.

Good post, btw. The impact of online streaming is a crucial component to this conversation.

Neapolitan · 06-05-2017, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

No offense taken. Nostalgia is obviously an important part of this discussion. Perhaps we're presently in a state of perpetual nostalgia. Or older developments seem more revolutionary to me because I was younger. What if we took another 17 year chunk 66-83? To me the first two 17 year chunks both saw more development. Maybe the obsession with newness and novelty became dull. Or maybe my hypothesis (stolen from Mark Fisher, btw) won't stand up to scrutiny.

Well if went by my favorite from a personal taste I would pick '66 to around about '83. I don't know why it's broken into seventeen years, but if I tried to be unbiased as possible I would still pick '66 to '82. During that era there was (what is called) "Freak Beat," Psychedelic Rock, Soul, Acid Rock, Acid Folk, Folk Rock, Progressive Folk, Progressive Rock, Blues Rock, Uk Glam Rock, Soft Rock, experimental music/experimental Rock, Dawg music, electronic music, Southern Rock, (early forms of Metal), Art Rock, Punk Rock, Disco, Post-Punk, New Wave, Funk, Jazz-Fusion, NWOBHM, minimal synth, Reggae/Dub, and a few others. I am also a fan of music from 2000-2017, and I notice that a lot of bands take inspiration from music '66 to '83. Even hip hop samples their break beats from the drum breaks on late 60s R&B records.

Even during those years the method of recording changed as well. That time period saw the end of mono tape recording, to the birth of digital recording. George Martin said that Sgt. Pepper was one of the last albums recorded on (what he called) a three track at EMI. The first CD released was in Japan was 52nd Street by Billy Joel in 1982.

OccultHawk · 06-05-2017, 02:31 PM

The 17 year thing is just to use 2000 as an arbitrary round number cut off point.

You make a great case for the oldest 17 year set. It's also very interesting to consider the impact sampling has had on how people think of new music. It's also interesting to consider what Frown said about there being an actual physical scene as opposed to a more online less need for face-to-face experience. Maybe the less visceral online experience makes people less inclined to be a part of something they feel is revolutionary.

**Frownland** · 06-05-2017, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

In the post 2000 era what music do you find especially pioneering (scene or no scene)?

I'd say we're going to need more than Death Grips.

Good post, btw. The impact of online streaming is a crucial component to this conversation.

I wouldn't equate innovation with pioneering, since the latter implies an impact on the music world at large and it's too early to say tbh.

As far as innovation, Matana Roberts' Coin Coin Chapter Three is a great example. I see a lot of innovation in hip hop, like Moor Mother extrapolating on Matana's and Sun Ra's ideas through the lens of industrial hip hop. Shabazz Palaces is another good example. Outside of hip hop, there's The Caretaker's step forward for turntablism, Richard Dawson's new bent on Irish folk, Kurushimi's blackened samurai metal (that isn't as cheesy or as racist as that sounds), who are building on ideas from Zu. Bands like Ehnahre, Yowie, Wolves in Sheepskin, and Jute Gyte are taking metal all kinds of cool places. I also like Stian Westerhus's new album quite a bit because of how new yet familiar it sounded to me.

There's all kinds of cool stuff.

OccultHawk · 06-05-2017, 02:41 PM

Quote:

I also like Stian Westerhus's new album quite a bit because of how new yet familiar it sounded to me.

There's a **** ton to respond to in that post but first I want to say Pitch Black Star Spangled is a GREAT record.

**Janszoon** · 06-05-2017, 02:57 PM

I'm leaning toward 83-00. But I think it's lot easier to pick out what was truly pioneering once a significant amount of time has passed so I my opinion is probably colored by that.

OccultHawk · 06-05-2017, 03:03 PM

Fair enough.

Let's grant Frown this excellent point

Quote:

I wouldn't equate innovation with pioneering, since the latter implies an impact on the music world at large and it's too early to say tbh.

06-05-2017, 02:57 PM	#29 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,590	I'm leaning toward 83-00. But I think it's lot easier to pick out what was truly pioneering once a significant amount of time has passed so I my opinion is probably colored by that. __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

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06-05-2017, 01:51 PM	#22 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,551	I'm too anal to be find boring ass ICP entertaining. In response to the OP, I think it's hard to say. I find a lot of innovation going on today but not to the extent of creating a scene around it, which I think was more common in the earlier period. It might have something to do with the medium, with people being more likely to listen to physical albums than bandcamp or soundcloud streams. I think that factor is taking away from the local music community and in the face of all the extra music out there, it's harder to make an impact on the music world in the same way that you used to, but it's also easier in some ways a la Death Grips and such. So maybe pioneering was more prevalent back then. Tl;Dr I have no ****ing idea which one is better or more innovative. I like them both a lot in different ways.

06-05-2017, 01:59 PM	#23 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	Well I'm way too old but whenever I would strike up conversations with their fans mostly I'd get shock that a fat old **** like me would like them but once I could rattle off a few songs they would be like...hmmmm... but I would make it clear that I was merely a casual fan and by no means am I claiming Juggalo status. I didn't want any of that Juffalo beat down for false claiming.

06-05-2017, 02:31 PM	#26 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	The 17 year thing is just to use 2000 as an arbitrary round number cut off point. You make a great case for the oldest 17 year set. It's also very interesting to consider the impact sampling has had on how people think of new music. It's also interesting to consider what Frown said about there being an actual physical scene as opposed to a more online less need for face-to-face experience. Maybe the less visceral online experience makes people less inclined to be a part of something they feel is revolutionary.