What Sucks about This Artist?: Pink Floyd

**Frownland** · 09-23-2021, 10:26 AM

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Originally Posted by Guybrush

Disagree. They could've been a blues rock band. How would you know? Look for the LSD tabs?

I'd look at em.

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I definitely think many of us have short attention spans today and want things that are more obviously appealing. There's such an enormous amount of content and I think in that environment, having some obvious stand-out feature(s) or larger identity becomes more important.

It's not just their music which often lacks the instant gratification we increasingly want. It's most things about them. Without a stronger identity, they just more become what they actually are - old, white men. I think that affects how they're viewed today. Dad rock isn't cool.

But we don't have to agree. That's fine.

Agree to disagree on not having a strong identity I guess. I don't think it's entirely irrelevant, I just doubt that costumery is as large of a driving force behind public opinion as you're making it out to be. Does it hamper your appreciation of the group or something?

Guybrush · 09-23-2021, 10:33 AM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

Does it hamper your appreciation of the group or something?

Not at all. I generally like things that are less defined, don't follow formulas or genre conventions. I want to be surprised and to hear or see something new.

You can read the above as part my old man gripe. But I will admit that I have felt my own attention span shorten since the invention of streaming services and smart phones. I believe it affects most of us on some level and I find it a little disconcerting.

**Frownland** · 09-23-2021, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush

Not at all. I generally like things that are less defined, don't follow formulas or genre conventions. I want to be surprised and to hear or see something new.

I ask because it doesn't seem like you're basing this on anything outside of presumptions to explain why people think that Floyd is boring as opposed to just accepting that that's how they feel about the music.

Guybrush · 09-23-2021, 10:58 AM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

I ask because it doesn't seem like you're basing this on anything outside of presumptions to explain why people think that Floyd is boring as opposed to just accepting that that's how they feel about the music.

I am basing it on presumptions, so that would be correct. Not ONLY presumptions. We know there was a time when 15-20 minute songs were commercially viable. It lasted a few years, then they quickly became unpopular.

People, culture and trends change over time. When talking about a band's popularity, I find the changing environment that the band exists in to be a necessary part of attempting to explain it.

**Frownland** · 09-23-2021, 11:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Guybrush

We know there was a time when 15-20 minute songs were commercially viable. It lasted a few years, then it quickly became unpopular.

Right, but you implied here that the popular perception of Floyd being boring is separate from their musical qualities.

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they're from a time when people and bands were generally less concerned with some simple identity shtick. There's no simple concept or cool image to them, especially not into the late Gilmour era. They're about the music and so occasionally wander into becoming complete bores.

I disagree with the assertion that people were less interested in clean typography during Floyd's time and that Floyd evades such categorization. That aside, what are you basing the idea that people find Floyd boring because they don't fulfill their need for a simple identity schtick? I think that their music informs this more than anything, as you seem to somewhat agree with by bringing up 15-20 minute songs and such.

Guybrush · 09-23-2021, 12:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

That aside, what are you basing the idea that people find Floyd boring because they don't fulfill their need for a simple identity schtick?

It could be anything. What appealing qualities could an artist have and how broad is potentially each of those qualities? They can be sexy, cool, outspoken on issues that are important to you, be relatable on a personal/intimate level through social media, appear on SNL, act in movies, look badass in a leather jacket or with corpse paint on. There are many ways to be appealing and many ways to connect with a band or an artist.

In terms of identity shtick, it's just sub cultures and marketing has evolved a lot. Bands that perhaps were competitive back then wouldn't necessarily be had they appeared today.

**Frownland** · 09-23-2021, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush

It could be anything. What appealing qualities could an artist have and how broad is potentially each of those qualities? They can be sexy, cool, outspoken on issues that are important to you, be relatable on a personal/intimate level through social media, appear on SNL, act in movies, look badass in a leather jacket or with corpse paint on. There are many ways to be appealing and many ways to connect with a band or an artist.

In terms of identity shtick, it's just sub cultures and marketing has evolved a lot.

Sorry, my question was a bit flubbed. It should have said: what are you basing the idea that people find Floyd boring because they don't fulfill their need for a simple identity schtick on?

My key point is that just because artists with identity schticks have seen success, it's faulty logic to attempt to apply the reverse to Floyd's public perception as a boring band being because of the lack of one. Even then the underpinning claim that identity schtick=success just strikes me as a way to dismiss artists without engaging with their music. And as I've already mentioned, simple identity schticks can be and are applied to Floyd by marketers and the public. Even if they didn't, the idea that they're too pure for an identity schtick becomes one in itself.

Why do people find Pink Floyd boring? Probably because they've been exposed to music they prefer with genre trends that Floyd isn't attempting to follow and the ideas Floyd focuses on are underwhelming to them. I'd say that that holds in both 1980 and 2021.

Guybrush · 09-23-2021, 01:36 PM

I believe PF are considered more boring in 2021 than in 1980, despite the open hostility towards prog at the time. Not necessarily to people like me who were weaned on them and will forever love them, but to potential new listeners. And people do dismiss without engaging with the music all the time.

As a person becoming interested in music, you'll probably hear the name Pink Floyd still. But what is there to tempt them to put a record on? There's something, of course, it's one of the biggest rock bands to ever exist and also one of the most successful. But from another perspective it might also obviously be old time boomer rock. I may be presumptuous, but I'm just guessing that, as old artists compete with new artists on streaming services, there's gonna be a trend of slowly dwindling popularity for bands like PF where people instead wanna listen to the latest Taylor Quick or some other artist who is current, trendy and more available in various forms of media. I think people like things they can relate to and the older something becomes, the less relatable it's gonna be off-hand. The band predates any real subculture that a new listener might derive some sense of identity from, so that kind of sub-cultural access to listeners is also going to dwindle over time. Some of the intricate potential reasons for dismissal, while complex, may be summed up as boring.

And you can also get into the shape of music. It's a long time since long ass prog songs were commercially viable. A lot of young people grew up with music that was louder, perhaps more aggressive, more extreme in the things they convey or focusing more on relatable experiences, most likely more immediate. Their tastes may be shaped by that and something like Echoes might seem comparatively more boring when compared to the output of more current artists.

jadis · 09-23-2021, 02:00 PM

My preference in PF is a "tell me you're a postpunk guy without telling me you're a postpunk guy" meme: Piper, Relics and, above all, Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun.

Gotta respect their subsequent achievements even if to me they sound like highbrow AOR for the most part.

**Frownland** · 09-23-2021, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush

But from another perspective it might also obviously be old time boomer rock.

That's their identity schtick, I'd think that would help Floyd's rep.

09-23-2021, 01:36 PM	#198 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I believe PF are considered more boring in 2021 than in 1980, despite the open hostility towards prog at the time. Not necessarily to people like me who were weaned on them and will forever love them, but to potential new listeners. And people do dismiss without engaging with the music all the time. As a person becoming interested in music, you'll probably hear the name Pink Floyd still. But what is there to tempt them to put a record on? There's something, of course, it's one of the biggest rock bands to ever exist and also one of the most successful. But from another perspective it might also obviously be old time boomer rock. I may be presumptuous, but I'm just guessing that, as old artists compete with new artists on streaming services, there's gonna be a trend of slowly dwindling popularity for bands like PF where people instead wanna listen to the latest Taylor Quick or some other artist who is current, trendy and more available in various forms of media. I think people like things they can relate to and the older something becomes, the less relatable it's gonna be off-hand. The band predates any real subculture that a new listener might derive some sense of identity from, so that kind of sub-cultural access to listeners is also going to dwindle over time. Some of the intricate potential reasons for dismissal, while complex, may be summed up as boring. And you can also get into the shape of music. It's a long time since long ass prog songs were commercially viable. A lot of young people grew up with music that was louder, perhaps more aggressive, more extreme in the things they convey or focusing more on relatable experiences, most likely more immediate. Their tastes may be shaped by that and something like Echoes might seem comparatively more boring when compared to the output of more current artists. __________________ Something Completely Different

09-23-2021, 02:00 PM	#199 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,232	My preference in PF is a "tell me you're a postpunk guy without telling me you're a postpunk guy" meme: Piper, Relics and, above all, Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun. Gotta respect their subsequent achievements even if to me they sound like highbrow AOR for the most part.