R.E.M. - Opinions

Synthgirl · 01-31-2023, 04:39 AM

Agreed. Lyrical poetry can be great and impactful, but if the cadence of the lyrics doesn't fit in with the music, the music as a whole suffers. And on the other side of the coin, some great songs can have largely meaningless lyrics but they still fit with the style or theme of the song.

Back to the subject of REM, I'm a bit sick of their hits (I could go without ever hearing Shiny Happy People ever again quite frankly) but their whole career has a lot of great songs. Life's Rich Pageant, Green and Murmur are probably my favorite three albums.

**Frownland** · 01-31-2023, 06:38 PM

I too like to confuse delivery with lyrical quality.

EDIT: REM sux

elphenor · 02-01-2023, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Boo

I agree with you for once, I never got the point of judging lyrics entirely on their own without acknowledging the context of the music.

Most songs lyrics are going to be more repetitive and limited in structure compared to what you can do with a poem or a novel, so yeah Bob Dylan's lyrics on their own are not gonna hold up against *enter name of famous poet here because I don't fucking know anything about poetry* but that's missing the point, you're comparing two completely different mediums.

there are ofc examples of lyricists who have styles that challenge this at times

Patti Smith, Tom Verlaine, Mark E Smith, etc

but I'd never judge a lyricist for not being a poet if that makes sense

Lisnaholic · 02-01-2023, 02:20 PM

Yep, it's good to be reminded that good lyrics and good poetry-on-the-page are not the same thing. I imagine we all agree that they share this kind of relationship:

Also we might, as Frownland neatly summarises, "confuse delivery with lyrical quality" in the passion of the moment. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has been swept away by Tutti-Frutti-Ohh-Rutti and thought "This is the best poetry I've ever come across!"

(As some of you might have noticed, I've got a fat book of Dylan lyrics which even has a little built-in ribbon bookmark like you get in a prayerbook. It's interesting to me, partly because the lyrics are in Spanish and English, but I wouldn't want anyone to think that I give it the status of the Bible.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Syd Barrett's "Bike" is the perfect example of a song elevated by memorable lyrics

Yep, that's a good song, though ironically, me and my mates always used to think of it as "a bit of a joke", which was often an element in his lyrics. I suppose what I like about SB is the way his lyrics lurch around unpredicatably between surreal, cryptic, simple and childlike, with meaning and nonsense apparently squabbling over who's in charge.
__________________

Frownland is capable of arguing his position better than most of us, so I feel like we have been short-changed on this one

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

REM sux

**Frownland** · 02-01-2023, 02:32 PM

There's really not much to elaborate on with a negative opinion like that except that the elements that REM fans enjoy aren't noteworthy for me. It's not like I can take someone's lame ass taste away from them by going into the specifics. Plus I'd have to listen to more REM to inform the more detailed stance. **** that.

**Janszoon** · 02-01-2023, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

I also notice that most people here seem to favour early REM. Perhaps REM follow the arc of many bands: bold, innovative sound at the start of their careers, then getting soft, self-indulgent or over-complicated furthur down the line.

I think that's sort of true for REM. With the possible exception of their second album, Reckoning, I think their first six albums are all pretty great. By the time they released Out of Time (the one with "Losing My Religion" on it), I think they were kind of running out of steam and trying to experiment. As a result, that album is very hit-or-miss, but it does have a few really great tracks. They then got their mojo back with Automatic for the People, which is one of their best albums and should have been their swan song. After that, it was all downhill. Monster made me lose interest, and what I've heard of the subsequent albums didn't seem to be an improvement.

rubber soul · 02-01-2023, 03:21 PM

For me, the best REM albums are Murmur, Reckoning, Automatic For the People, and New Adventures in Hi-Fi. The ones that era the most disappointing would be Life's Rich Pageant (despite the brilliant Fall On Me), Monster, and some of the albums post Berry's departure (though there are some gems on those albums too).

**Janszoon** · 02-01-2023, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

For me, the best REM albums are Murmur, Reckoning, Automatic For the People, and New Adventures in Hi-Fi. The ones that era the most disappointing would be Life's Rich Pageant (despite the brilliant Fall On Me), Monster, and some of the albums post Berry's departure (though there are some gems on those albums too).

Damn, Life's Rich Pageant has been one of my favorites of theirs since forever.

Lisnaholic · 02-01-2023, 07:05 PM

So some debate about the later REM albums! I'm afraid I won't reach them for a while myself as my exploration has stalled somewhat. Still, I hope to advance into their discography, because I'm at last learning why they have been so popular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

There's really not much to elaborate on with a negative opinion like that except that the elements that REM fans enjoy aren't noteworthy for me. It's not like I can take someone's lame ass taste away from them by going into the specifics. Plus I'd have to listen to more REM to inform the more detailed stance. **** that.

That's more like the Frownland I know!

HisGrace · 02-02-2023, 09:14 PM

I like their first two albums a lot, although after that it's kind of just songs to me. But they were always a good singles band.

01-31-2023, 06:38 PM	#192 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,551	I too like to confuse delivery with lyrical quality. EDIT: REM sux __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

02-01-2023, 02:32 PM	#195 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,551	There's really not much to elaborate on with a negative opinion like that except that the elements that REM fans enjoy aren't noteworthy for me. It's not like I can take someone's lame ass taste away from them by going into the specifics. Plus I'd have to listen to more REM to inform the more detailed stance. **** that. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

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01-31-2023, 04:39 AM	#191 (permalink)
Synthgirl Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Cheeseland USA Posts: 124	Agreed. Lyrical poetry can be great and impactful, but if the cadence of the lyrics doesn't fit in with the music, the music as a whole suffers. And on the other side of the coin, some great songs can have largely meaningless lyrics but they still fit with the style or theme of the song. Back to the subject of REM, I'm a bit sick of their hits (I could go without ever hearing Shiny Happy People ever again quite frankly) but their whole career has a lot of great songs. Life's Rich Pageant, Green and Murmur are probably my favorite three albums.

02-02-2023, 09:14 PM	#200 (permalink)
HisGrace Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 51	I like their first two albums a lot, although after that it's kind of just songs to me. But they were always a good singles band.