Lucem Ferre

I don't think they're educated enough to really have an idea of what they are but Carnival of Carnage is definitely in line with Marxist theory. They do a lot of charity work though, and have taken a very strong anti-Trump stance. I think it's fair to say that they are at least moderately socialist.

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Art Is Dead. Buy My ****.

The Batlord

Yeah I would agree. Carnival of Carnage would be a socialist record if I thought they even knew what socialism was. For all I said in my journal entry I have no illusions about ICP's knowledge of any kind of politics let alone socialism. At least Kottonmouth Kings have an association with punk that informs their political beliefs, otherwise I'd be dubious of them as well.

This is why the college *******s need to start reaching out. There are so many downtrodden people who'd be open to socialism if they just knew what the **** it was. But ICP's sheer vehemence about their social (not political) stance is clearly a gateway for them to socialism and many of their fans would be likewise open to it if the gatekeepers to socialism would get the **** off their high horses and just tried to connect with them in an honest way.

Back before WW2 during the Great Depression socialism was a real force in American politics so the poor are very much about it even if they don't know it or reject it. They just need it put to them in a way that doesn't feel like condescending intellectual elites treating them like children. The only thing standing in the way is not just that they feel a lack of respect but that they are legitimately being disrespected and they're not so dumb that they can't sense it.

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Lucem Ferre

And there is this idea that socialism isn't economically viable. That's most of what I hear from people that argue against it.

But yeah, I have friends that spread the anti socialism and anti Marxist rhetoric with out a true understanding of either then turn around and say something extremely Marxist.

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Art Is Dead. Buy My ****.

The Batlord

Watched a Contrapoints video talking to another socialist Youtuber where they made the point that the reason liberalism and socialism are a hard sell is that they're more complicated to explain than conservatism. All you need to say about conservatism is that it's wrong for the government to take your money and you've got an audience of people who may or may not know anything about the specifics, but with liberalism you need to explain those specifics and it's a hindrance to being accessible. Tried finding the video and this might be it but I don't know. The other person is good too.

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The Batlord

But to people who are actually trying to figure out what your policies are you have to put in some extra legwork to explain the added government involvement. Otherwise it's just Bernie Bros who're masturbating at the thought of sticking it to Republicans and corporations.

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The Batlord

So what you're saying is that you support the continued oppression of the poor. I mean I get that the American economic system has disenfranchised people who might otherwise be legit proletariat with the rise of the service industry but we're not talking about ****ing old school Russia or China.

This is your ****ing problem, moron. Who the **** do you think you're trying to appeal to?

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The Batlord

Dude, I know full well that the reason that Soviet and Chinese socialism failed was because they didn't have a proletariat, only peasants with no means of production to seize, so they had to enact a stop gap measure to build up their industrial sector to the point that they'd have a proletariat to finish the revolution but clearly by the time that might have happened they had a dictatorship that now had no interest in giving power to them.

But in already industrialized nations all you have to do to stave off revolution is to create unions and give them a minimum wage and boom they're well off enough to not care about seizing anything. In late stage capitalism the current class structure is the best you're going to get. Deal with it and stop wishing for the perfect Marx situation. It's not happening.

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windsock

So this is the second socialism thread then?

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RYM
Last.fm

The Batlord

The **** are you talking about? "Socialism" is absolutely a dirty word. You can't even say "liberal" without "progressives" ducking the word cause they're cowed by conservatives. You seriously have no realistic concept of politics.

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Freebase Dali

Nah, see... I was the first motherf*cker to make fun of homeboy Anteater's hair, told him it was lost in the '80s. But you see, there are very f*cking good vibes outta that era. Even to this day. All relevant. You ever heard Wild Nothing? That band is the soundtrack to Anteater's hair. Old, but new. Sexy the whole time. You gotta get your f*cking facts straight.

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