Thank you.

Haha.
Its only a theory...but then again isn't God?

Yes, a theory which people choose to believe.
Personally i don't think people should be attacked for their beliefs on something like this.
Questioned yes, but sh*t like the stuff between bungalowbill and vanilla was just petty.

Agreed...I'm a sceptic on most things, religion being one of those.

I respect peoples beliefs because it brings them purpose and happiness.

It's worth the belief for that spin off alone.

I respect their beliefs unless they start bringing it up without asking. Placebo effects can be garnered from most things, even nihilism (to an extent). Indeed nocebo effects can also be created by beliefs (if you start believing you're possessed by a daemon, chances are you're going to start feeling pretty crappy). It works both ways.

Agreed, but no offence to Vanilla, she does get all fanatical when it comes to matters of religion which I say good for her.But it's even put me on the defensive a few times.

I know she doesn't mean it, but if you're passionate about your cause sometimes things will be said that will turn into disputes.

theory
n.
a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation

By that definition neither God nor Christianity are a "theory," as they are in no way based on Scientific evidence or experimentation.

As for the "if not for God, where did the Universe come from?" bit, many people seem to think that putting God into the equation seems to solve the whole Universal mystery, but where did God come from? Has he always been here? Did he just pop into existence? I guess whatever your answer to that question could be the same answer to "where did the Universe come from?" Either way, we're just guessing because it's one of those things that's impossible to know.

And I'm not really talking about the Big Bang theory here, because that explains how the Universe formed, but not where it came from... why there was a tiny point of infinitely dense mass that just decided to explode... that bit.

All true...well said.

I've always loved that. Science seeks to explain something, we don't know where the matter in the big bang came from so Christians reject it. But it's perfectly acceptable to believe that a God existed from nowhere with no explanation needed.

Just to balance things out, or an attempt to any way, the most rational Scientists, even those who refuse to believe in God, admit to a lack of completeness in our understanding of the universe.

They will admit that neither God nor the Bible can be proved or disproved by science, just as many of their favourite theories ultimately cannot be proved or disproved.
Science is meant to be a truly neutral discipline, seeking only the truth, not proof of an agenda.
And God has always intended us to come to Him through faith, not through logic.

I have more faith in science than I have in religion.
Years ago it was the other way around...in years to come as I near my end, who knows what I will think then...

Of course, Science relies upon the basis that nothin is ever a fact and only ever a theory and may alwasy be disproved. Religion is far too cut and stick for it to be a healthy way to live, in my opinion. Religion is non scientific, it requires a lack of logic - hence you can never disprove a Religion with science. That doesn't make the religion true though, which is a conclusion a shocking amount of people come too.

Good point and I love looking at your user pic after you make a statement you firmly beleive in...as if to say ...so there! :laughing:

Well. I will answer your question with another question.
Your question is

"How, with out a higher power, was the world created"

Mine is

"Who created God?"

Answer that for me or else your argument is bull

*sigh*

I believe god has always been, and i have faith in this.

Nothing has always been nor will it always be

Well, in that case, the tiny point of infinitly dense mass

has always been and always will be.

So, that just proves that "Where did the universe come from?" question is completely irrelavent and invalid

This is why i didn't wanna get into this.
Yes i have faith in it, yes i believe it.
Oh my god, lets have the athiests all attack me now.
Did i say you had to believe it?
Did i say "God has always been" Notice how i had "and i have faith in this" at the end.
My opinion, my faith, not yours.

if only there were more christians with the same mindset as you. i hate it when people are all pushy pushy with their beleifs, or think that everyone has to beleive it because it HAS to be true. it's impossible to prove that christ or god exists, and its not going to be solved by some priest in italy or by a writer who's obviously a prick. i'm agnostic, i won't beleive it until i see but, until then i can't deny that there is no higher power.

Where did I say I was an athiest,You didn't say I had to believe it, but if you're going to believe something has been around forever, your seriously deluded.

Like you said "My opinion,my faith,not yours.

It was "My" opinion.

Oh, so when you quoted me you weren't trying to prove me wrong at all, or get a reply from me, and i assumed you we're an athiest sorry.

More angling toward agnostic.And to be honest I wasn't baiting you or anyone with that statement.It was merely my take on it.

Frankly, both you and Bills posts smacked of baiting.

baiting?

Well, anyway.
I just dont like how "always is and always will be " is a perfectly reasonable explaination for gods creation.
But it is a ridiculous explaination for everything else

Believe what you will.:finger:

How do you know that? Its likely that the universe as an empty mass will always be there, even if everything in it dies.
And our religion says that he is immortal, and thats what we chose to believe.

I believe it, and i don't think i said other beliefs are stupid and un logical in this thread.

What you said was

"If you cannot tell me how the universe was created, then the arguments are bull"

then you proceded to say that God always is and always will be.

Posting in a fashion designed to garner an unpleasant response.

I'm out of this argument as it seems most of what's being said is being taken completely out of context.:(

No one can prove how it all began, thats why its called faith. I find it amusing that the christian faith is always slammed, but no one wonders why asian religions worship pink elephants.

Prolly cause you've got more chance seeing a pink elephant;)

Right! now I'm gone from this pointless dispute.

They dont leave bibles on my doorstep now do they...

That was a serious question, you're answer was immature, and completely irrelavent to this topic

Thats because if they did...they'd be preaching for the wrong religion:laughing: Think about what you just said...

christians slam other faiths all the time, thinking that theirs is the only TRUE one. and like bungalow said, i dont see too many agressive campaigns to recuit new beleivers by other world religions. maybe thats just out of ignorance, but as far as i can see christianity is hellbent on converting us all. i'm not saying every christian has that mindset before i get flamed, but i find it just as foolish to worship ganesh or shiva or any other of their millions of gods as it is to worship one.

Bible means

book.

Perhaps I wasnt using its religious connotation

Well the hindu religion doesnt have a holy book as such, so it'd be hard to leave thousands of scrolls on your doorstep.

And plus why would another religion leave a 'book' on your doorstep. You ment their holy books, but you just didn't know what they are called.

The Hindu holy book(s) are the Purahnas