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I think that women do have equal rights and radical feminists annoy me. I do not, however, feel the need to engage in a debate about a subject that I'm not informed enough about.
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And I agree that feminsim has overstayed it's welcome. If the driving force behind feminism is women being stereotyped, then it's a dead cause. Everyone is stereotyped for something (be it race, gender, occupation, whatever), and I'm afraid that ain't changing. |
Feminism, by definition is something I am all for and something that was drastically needed and in some ways still is to this day. Not every feminist, in my own experience, seems to actually know what feminism is though or understand the concept of it.
If someone calls themselves a feminist and is looking for a universal, worldwide equality between both sexes then thats fine and thats something worth taking a stand for. If someone calls themselves a feminist and seems to want to reverse the roles entirely then they are completely missing the point and give the word a bad name. I've noticed that a lot of these people are the kind of people that seem so desperate to avoid being seen as conceding any ounce of power on any level at all to a man that they take offense to a man just practicising good manners in ways that have already been touched upon in this thread. If i happen to do something as small as hold a door open for a woman then i expect a thank you, not a load of grief because you don't need anyone to do anything for you at all. The man hating extremists can all go to hell as far as im concerned. |
I was only able to read this thread because the bitch was making me a sandwich...
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Feminism is not a dead cause, just recently an amendment was almost passed saying that health care wouldn't cover abortions. That kinda sounds like a feminist issue, does it not?! That sort of thing shouldn't even be a ****ing political issue though. |
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*** rights and civil rights can preach all they want about not stereotyping, I think it's just as futile seeing as most people who are willing to embrace their cause have already and others are forever tied to history. You cannot politically control someone's way of thinking. |
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1) Snow. 2) Haiti. 3) Complain about Obama. Why are these the issues on everyone's mind? Because they are the issues being played over and over on tv. Throw in a new abortion issue or a new *** rights issue, those will be the new hot topics (and not because they are the most relevant). People are controlled politically everyday. |
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Most people who believe abortion shouldn't be covered are those in the South with strong ties to their religion, some of the most stubborn people in the country. Rationalization is pretty rare. None of those issues are particularly controversial, either. |
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I wouldn't do the people the offense of calling them sheep. Everyone's been told to believe something, it's what we put stock into that's important. A case could be made for both sides on different bases. Converting a whole party of beliefs just based on sound argument doesn't sound likely for either side, it's usually a gradual change in beliefs. |
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I think I was pretty clear. Why is abortion a feminist issue?
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Because if it becomes illegal, or too difficult and expensive to access then it's women who bear the vast majority of negative consequences.
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You don't think it's an issue for the father as well? |
Surely the issue of abortion is a moral one that includes both genders?
There are times when the egotistical cheek of a woman is truly staggering and this is one of them, along with leaving the toilet seat up. Only yesterday my wife ordered me to buy her flowers (because of last year) for Valentines Day AND expected me to do the Sunday dinner too! I was obliged to point out to her that Mothers Day was next month. |
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Not saying it isn't, just explaining why it would be a predominantly feminist issue |
like any radical cause, feminism too suffers the challenge of having a single word describe an entire outlook. being that people create their perspectives and outlooks with the stuff of experience, it's pretty much impossible for the word 'feminism' to keep a grounded definition for all followers of the movement to abide by and believe in, because it's their experience that attaches meaning to the word rather than a definition firmly rooted in a conquerable cause.
there is a good chance that feminists who don't like having the door held for them or that just flat out hate men (or appear to anyway) have had experiences in the past that made them feel that way about the male gender, and have thusly adopted something which faintly resembles a moral standpoint on the issue to serve as an outlet for what basically amounts to plain anger. feminism in the west, i will agree, is outdated. there is no good use for it. i just wish all those women would wake the **** up and realize that there are women and men and children and babies all over the place who don't even have doors to be held open for them to begin with. up with the equality of nations i say, and down with this one-track lack-of-peripheral **** that we call the causes of today. |
I once watched a claws-out death match between a guy saying he wouldn't agree with feminism because it too pigeonholed the cause. Why focus on women when there were countless groups being prevented from equality.
He was murdered in public because he knew what he meant but couldn't articulate his position and of course, his opponent had roughly 82 years of sloganeering and bumper stickers to quote at him. And, as if often the case, seemed like a more immediate and burning issue because he was going up against a woman, against feminism. But its true. Most women will tell you feminism is the goal of having men treated as equally as women. What I think the feminists don't often see is that for to many people who aren't, we don't need to assign ourselves a term in order to do what most believe is right. In fact many on the American right (you're welcome, Urban) would argue that this has always been the goal of the American movement. While many on the side of the feminist would cite the Declaration of Independence as saying "all men" those of us too willing to accept the logic of progress would argue that America's one enduring fail-safe is that we error on the side of freedom. While it has its downsides, it has allowed America to march endlessly toward progress. But lets not get off topic here, this isn't about political doctrine. What it is, is willing to look at the strife of one person, group, or section of the world and know that we inherently find it to be less than satisfactory. To pigeonhole yourself with terms like feminism to me doesn't seem fair to others suffering, as if there were a hierarchy or list of who was more important. |
Feminism is a hoot.
Just kidding. You go girls Except for the ones who never seem to be happy. |
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Saying that all feminists are fat, rude, bumper-sticker ****faces campaigning for the reversal of gender roles is like saying all rock music sounds like Nickelback. I guess the weird, unpleasent "feminists" that y'all hate arn't the majority of feminists, they're just the most prominent type. |
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Why is that so hard to understand? |
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I'm not sure what point you're aiming for, but either way it's not so relevant. Regardless of who wants the baby, the experience is still centred on the woman. At this point the only thing a man has contributed to the scenario is an orgasm. And besides, if we're discussing abortion then clearly at least the woman doesn't want the baby, she can take the guy's feelings into account but the choice rests with her.
This is getting off topic, I was just pointing out to Proggy why it's bleedingly obvious that abortion would be a feminist issue, because it touches strongly on the feminist agenda. That doesn't mean they own the topic. |
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Nah man, once a child is born and being raised, then the parents have an equal role. But I couldn't ever say that the guy's emotional response is equal to actually being pregnant and all the shit that entails. The man's response varies wildly on whether he really cares about the hypothetical baby, the woman is pregnant regardless of her feelings.
As a simple illustration, as I was going out last Friday night my dad made some joke/warning about getting a girl pregnant, and I said something along the lines of, 'Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd skip town.' Now, that's flippant - but still entirely possible. And it shows a marked difference in the way a pregnancy affects each side. And a really simple way to put it, which I probably could have used right at the start. Abortions are a feminist issue, because women have abortions. Quote:
The fact that a big part of this thread is complaining about women who dislike having doors opened for them is just sad and completely misses the point of feminism - which is still valid in the first world as long as women are being raped and assaulted, being paid less than male counterparts and largely under represented in political spheres. It doesn't always have to be a women v men scenario, a big part of feminism is campaigning for women's interests. Similar groups exist for men. |
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One current issue related to feminist values is the legal rights of and facilities available to mothers returning to the workplace. Men don't have this obstacle when they have babies because, as you mentioned, they don't have to deal with the pregnancy. This, I would guess, is the main reason that women tend to have a lower average income then men in many developed nations. |
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I'm not trying to say your argument style is anything like boo boo's, so we can all chill. |
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*necrobump*
So, twelve years after this thread was made, where does everyone stand on Feminism? |
white women feminism is stupid and focused on unimportant **** like being able to walk around with your boobies out
i am all for feminism in countries where women are actually oppressed tho |
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