Feminism

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 02-14-2010, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

Last I checked it took a man and a woman to make a baby.
You don't think it's an issue for the father as well?

Not saying it isn't, just explaining why it would be a predominantly feminist issue

P A N · 02-14-2010, 09:57 AM

like any radical cause, feminism too suffers the challenge of having a single word describe an entire outlook. being that people create their perspectives and outlooks with the stuff of experience, it's pretty much impossible for the word 'feminism' to keep a grounded definition for all followers of the movement to abide by and believe in, because it's their experience that attaches meaning to the word rather than a definition firmly rooted in a conquerable cause.

there is a good chance that feminists who don't like having the door held for them or that just flat out hate men (or appear to anyway) have had experiences in the past that made them feel that way about the male gender, and have thusly adopted something which faintly resembles a moral standpoint on the issue to serve as an outlet for what basically amounts to plain anger.

feminism in the west, i will agree, is outdated. there is no good use for it. i just wish all those women would wake the **** up and realize that there are women and men and children and babies all over the place who don't even have doors to be held open for them to begin with. up with the equality of nations i say, and down with this one-track lack-of-peripheral **** that we call the causes of today.

TheBig3 · 02-14-2010, 10:10 AM

I once watched a claws-out death match between a guy saying he wouldn't agree with feminism because it too pigeonholed the cause. Why focus on women when there were countless groups being prevented from equality.

He was murdered in public because he knew what he meant but couldn't articulate his position and of course, his opponent had roughly 82 years of sloganeering and bumper stickers to quote at him. And, as if often the case, seemed like a more immediate and burning issue because he was going up against a woman, against feminism.

But its true. Most women will tell you feminism is the goal of having men treated as equally as women. What I think the feminists don't often see is that for to many people who aren't, we don't need to assign ourselves a term in order to do what most believe is right. In fact many on the American right (you're welcome, Urban) would argue that this has always been the goal of the American movement.

While many on the side of the feminist would cite the Declaration of Independence as saying "all men" those of us too willing to accept the logic of progress would argue that America's one enduring fail-safe is that we error on the side of freedom. While it has its downsides, it has allowed America to march endlessly toward progress.

But lets not get off topic here, this isn't about political doctrine. What it is, is willing to look at the strife of one person, group, or section of the world and know that we inherently find it to be less than satisfactory. To pigeonhole yourself with terms like feminism to me doesn't seem fair to others suffering, as if there were a hierarchy or list of who was more important.

CanwllCorfe · 02-14-2010, 10:43 AM

Feminism is a hoot.

Just kidding. You go girls

Except for the ones who never seem to be happy.

ProggyMan · 02-14-2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

Not saying it isn't, just explaining why it would be a predominantly feminist issue

Global warming is also important to woman.

Neapolitan · 02-14-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

Feminism is a hoot.

Just kidding. You go girls

Except for the ones who never seem to be happy.

Maybe the sad ones are waiting for you to cheer them up.

~~TumorAttitude~~ · 02-14-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

Feminism is a hoot.

Just kidding. You go girls

Except for the ones who never seem to be happy.

Be my best friend forever.

Saying that all feminists are fat, rude, bumper-sticker ****faces campaigning for the reversal of gender roles is like saying all rock music sounds like Nickelback.
I guess the weird, unpleasent "feminists" that y'all hate arn't the majority of feminists, they're just the most prominent type.

Fruitonica · 02-15-2010, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProggyMan

Global warming is also important to woman.

What the hell is that? Global warming affects men and women in pretty much the exact same way - unlike say, an unwanted pregnancy. That's why it's a feminist issue - no one is saying men aren't involved, or that they can't have an opinion.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Urban Hat€monger ? · 02-15-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruitonica

What the hell is that? Global warming affects men and women in pretty much the exact same way - unlike say, an unwanted pregnancy. That's why it's a feminist issue - no one is saying men aren't involved, or that they can't have an opinion.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Depends who it's unwanted by

Fruitonica · 02-16-2010, 02:36 AM

I'm not sure what point you're aiming for, but either way it's not so relevant. Regardless of who wants the baby, the experience is still centred on the woman. At this point the only thing a man has contributed to the scenario is an orgasm. And besides, if we're discussing abortion then clearly at least the woman doesn't want the baby, she can take the guy's feelings into account but the choice rests with her.

This is getting off topic, I was just pointing out to Proggy why it's bleedingly obvious that abortion would be a feminist issue, because it touches strongly on the feminist agenda. That doesn't mean they own the topic.

02-14-2010, 10:10 AM	#63 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	I once watched a claws-out death match between a guy saying he wouldn't agree with feminism because it too pigeonholed the cause. Why focus on women when there were countless groups being prevented from equality. He was murdered in public because he knew what he meant but couldn't articulate his position and of course, his opponent had roughly 82 years of sloganeering and bumper stickers to quote at him. And, as if often the case, seemed like a more immediate and burning issue because he was going up against a woman, against feminism. But its true. Most women will tell you feminism is the goal of having men treated as equally as women. What I think the feminists don't often see is that for to many people who aren't, we don't need to assign ourselves a term in order to do what most believe is right. In fact many on the American right (you're welcome, Urban) would argue that this has always been the goal of the American movement. While many on the side of the feminist would cite the Declaration of Independence as saying "all men" those of us too willing to accept the logic of progress would argue that America's one enduring fail-safe is that we error on the side of freedom. While it has its downsides, it has allowed America to march endlessly toward progress. But lets not get off topic here, this isn't about political doctrine. What it is, is willing to look at the strife of one person, group, or section of the world and know that we inherently find it to be less than satisfactory. To pigeonhole yourself with terms like feminism to me doesn't seem fair to others suffering, as if there were a hierarchy or list of who was more important. __________________ I've moved to a new address

02-14-2010, 10:43 AM	#64 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	Feminism is a hoot. Just kidding. You go girls Except for the ones who never seem to be happy. __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

02-14-2010, 09:57 AM	#62 (permalink)
P A N DO LIKE YOU. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 629	like any radical cause, feminism too suffers the challenge of having a single word describe an entire outlook. being that people create their perspectives and outlooks with the stuff of experience, it's pretty much impossible for the word 'feminism' to keep a grounded definition for all followers of the movement to abide by and believe in, because it's their experience that attaches meaning to the word rather than a definition firmly rooted in a conquerable cause. there is a good chance that feminists who don't like having the door held for them or that just flat out hate men (or appear to anyway) have had experiences in the past that made them feel that way about the male gender, and have thusly adopted something which faintly resembles a moral standpoint on the issue to serve as an outlet for what basically amounts to plain anger. feminism in the west, i will agree, is outdated. there is no good use for it. i just wish all those women would wake the ** up and realize that there are women and men and children and babies all over the place who don't even have doors to be held open for them to begin with. up with the equality of nations i say, and down with this one-track lack-of-peripheral ** that we call the causes of today.

02-16-2010, 02:36 AM	#70 (permalink)
Fruitonica Pale and Wan Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aus Posts: 917	I'm not sure what point you're aiming for, but either way it's not so relevant. Regardless of who wants the baby, the experience is still centred on the woman. At this point the only thing a man has contributed to the scenario is an orgasm. And besides, if we're discussing abortion then clearly at least the woman doesn't want the baby, she can take the guy's feelings into account but the choice rests with her. This is getting off topic, I was just pointing out to Proggy why it's bleedingly obvious that abortion would be a feminist issue, because it touches strongly on the feminist agenda. That doesn't mean they own the topic.