Yeah I have a Zen player, they are pretty decent. I have a Zen V plus...only 4gb though but you could get a Zen W I think it is...those are the bigger 30gb and 60gb ones

i really hated it too, until i found out that there's a manual option.


And I really advise against an ipod, mainly because that's what scenesters use.

I refuse to have an IPOD..because it's the biggest selling MP3 player I should have one? Do you follow that edict with your musical tastes? no. buy the one that does it's job and is cheaper and does'nt have ****ty headphones. Sennheiser headphones every time baby.

Grado pwns Sennheiser!

I don't know if they do earbuds though.

Well, look at what you posted.

I reccomend an ipod, it will work after a little tinkering around with practically any music playing software.

Its also the simplest and coolest looking one out there >.>

That as soon as I added my media library it started retagging and reorganizing my music? I'm sure that I could have disabled that but the damage was done... **** it for being so "user-friendly" that it tries to take over my computer.

yeah, i found that too... but you can't add photos manually, you gotta sync and when you do it syncs EVERYTHING.. though i think that's been fixed in an update or something

That might be the stupid reason ever. Who gives a flying **** if its popular or the scensters use it. Its stil one of the best music players out there. So what if your giving money to apple, or everyone has it, or it rep is bad now....Seriously why would you give a **** about what people think of your mp3...its to play music and the ipod def does a damn good job at doing that.

If you think it is one of the best music players out there, why did you ask the question in the first place? itunes does **** up you're entire music organization system, putting it in folders that have make no sense, with the sole purpose being to make it ****ing hard to share your music. I regrettably fell into the itunes trap 4 years ago, and have been too lazy to try to get out of it.

While the old ipods had some advantages, not being a total waste of money. The new ipod touch is a complete waste of money, being 300 dollars for 8GB of space or 400 dollars for 16GB of space, which is just pathetic.

Just as side note, I would aim for more than 20 GB of space, you'll regret it in about 2 or 3 years when you have more than 20 GB of music, which is highly likely.