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Quote:

Originally Posted by Applenux (Post 534861)

First I was talking about Capital Punishment when I said "can be killed legally" (I know you're supposed to be a criminal, but blood is supposed to be washed with tears, not with blood), and secondly, I just hate politic, capitalism AND socialist, or whatever. Why ? There's just people who want to be president, no one really care about their nation.
I just wanted to say that if one lives in a country where you go to jail if you are poor and sick (!), where everybody can buy guns, where the president has to swear on the bible, and where there is death penality, he shouldn't talk about others systems as "slavery".

Hey, I don't agree with that stuff either. I have a moral duty to spread rational thought if our country is spreading the opposite. I am not the government. I am not responsible for those things.

I believe you, but you should think about your own government, before criticizing others governments.
I know what you think : i am criticizing your government, and I didn't think about mine. You're right. So i'm going to talk about french government :
That could be one of the best in the world if french people would be enough intelligent to choose a good president. But we seem to loose our brains in front of a secret ballot, sadly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Applenux (Post 534868)

I believe you, but you should think about your own government, before criticizing others governments.
I know what you think : i am criticizing your government, and I didn't think about mine. You're right. So i'm going to talk about french government :
That could be one of the best in the world if french people would be enough intelligent to choose a good president. But we seem to loose our brains in front of a secret ballot, sadly.

I do think about my own government. That is what this thread is all about...

Also, I may criticize other governments. There is no reason for me not to do it.

awesome sight - love it.

I lol'd at their page for atheism

DEM EVIL ATHEISTS ARE BABY KILLING COMMUNISTS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword (Post 534789)

Again, if you value another's life over yours, you are irrational. You can still value other people if you love them, but to value them over your own life is irrational unless you believe that you cannot go on living without these people.

Sometimes, the value of one life IS greater than the value of another ~ older grandpa, lived his life, retired ~VS~ 10 year old kid with her productivity and life stretching out in front of her.

And i got laughed out of an Ayn Rand chat room because i feel like her philosophy is saying:

Be the best you can and strive for perfection, not only for your own interests, but also for others, because if they fall, you fall.

How do you know if you're doing well? In a capitalist society, you would be making money and the more you make, the better you've done. And it would work, but people are so flippin' GREEDY. It can't be 'Making More, At All Costs' ~ when you do THAT, you destroy your very customer base. Look at the sitch we're in, right now, because of greed.

There HAS to be personal responsibility, some sort of ethical code ~ the financial bottom line is only part of the equation.

Just my 2¢.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendyCal (Post 535424)

Sometimes, the value of one life IS greater than the value of another ~ older grandpa, lived his life, retired ~VS~ 10 year old kid with her productivity and life stretching out in front of her.

And i got laughed out of an Ayn Rand chat room because i feel like her philosophy is saying:

Be the best you can and strive for perfection, not only for your own interests, but also for others, because if they fall, you fall.

How do you know if you're doing well? In a capitalist society, you would be making money and the more you make, the better you've done. And it would work, but people are so flippin' GREEDY. It can't be 'Making More, At All Costs' ~ when you do THAT, you destroy your very customer base. Look at the sitch we're in, right now, because of greed.

There HAS to be personal responsibility, some sort of ethical code ~ the financial bottom line is only part of the equation.

Just my 2¢.

@Underlined: One must value his own life above others in order to live. If he doesn't, then that person could ask him to kill himself and he would do it. You regard man as a "sacrificial animal" (Rand) if you believe he should care about others before himself.

@Bold: Yeah, that is because you got it completely wrong. Rand believes to pursue one's own happiness. Man has no determined duty to help others.

I have already shown the positives of capitalism in many, many other threads and I really don't feel like doing it right now. So here:

Capitalism — Ayn*Rand Lexicon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword (Post 535468)

@bold Oh, you mistook me ~ i don't want to discuss Ayn Rand's philo ~ i understand that i changed it to suit myself.

@underline Here's a question, same hypothetical people, the grandpa and little girl. He has the logic to reason that his life is not as valuable as that of the little girl, so if a choice has to be made, he makes the choice that will allow his line/blood/name to continue, which is in his best interests.

But, yeah, i know, that still boils down to what you're saying ~ it's just so damned hard to come to grips with the fact that, no matter what, we're selfish at the very core of our beings...

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendyCal (Post 535598)

@bold Oh, you mistook me ~ i don't want to discuss Ayn Rand's philo ~ i understand that i changed it to suit myself.

Yeah, Objectivists hate that. Look at how they treat Nathaniel Branden.

Quote:

@underline Here's a question, same hypothetical people, the grandpa and little girl. He has the logic to reason that his life is not as valuable as that of the little girl, so if a choice has to be made, he makes the choice that will allow his line/blood/name to continue, which is in his best interests.

But then he regards himself as a sacrificial animal. Man must value his own life if he values reason. Man can still produce, even if he is retired, until he loses his reason. Plus, Ayn Rand was strictly against racism because you were blamed for what your ancestors did. I think the same applies here. Even if a member of your family is younger and has potential, you still don't value their life over yours. Now, that man can donate money to that girl or get her into a gifted program, even if it hurts him a bit, if he reaps the benefits of her productivity, or get something back. If he is going to die before he gets anything back, then it is useless. Now I am not to sure about Objectivist reasoning on your deathbed. Maybe he could give everything while he is on his deathbed because he is going to die before he enjoys anything. I don't really know about that position. I am not an Objectivist, I am a student.

Quote:

But, yeah, i know, that still boils down to what you're saying ~ it's just so damned hard to come to grips with the fact that, no matter what, we're selfish at the very core of our beings...

We're selfish because we are rational. That is the point of Objectivism. Selfishness is a virtue. (The Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand) She even says that all selfishness means is to have concern with your own interests. It doesn't mean "beat everyone down and lie, cheat, and steal until you rise to the top in victory." The term has been corrupted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword (Post 535733)

Yeah.

blah, blah, blah

Excuse me for paraphrasing? :rofl:

You've said you're a Christian ~ how have you reconciled these? (And i'm a Christian, also, so i will not attack you regarding your beliefs ~ i'm just curious, because i haven't been able to reconcile the two...) ;)