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Fruitonica 10-21-2008 08:44 PM

Quote:

Altruism specifically calls for putting another's interests above your own. If this is the case, then you put another's life before your own. If you put another life before your own, you do not care about your own survival because your own life is not your highest value.

Giving to others isn't necessarily altruism. You can give to others in your own rational self interest. It is just that you must never give more than you will receive. Otherwise you are irrational.
Do you think only in extremes? The gaping flaw in your argument is the ridiculous extrapolation that you cannot value your life if it isn't your highest priority.

Also, giving to others without expecting a return is only irrational if you adopt a selfish approach to life where personal gain is your greatest ambition.

Double X 10-22-2008 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword (Post 533859)
Rational self-interest.

Sweden is basically socialist and they are doing quite well.

The Unfan 10-22-2008 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword (Post 533859)
but this philosophy is the most logical philosophy out there.

No it isn't. Ayn Rand was crazy. Truly one of the worst philosophers of all time.

Inuzuka Skysword 10-22-2008 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unfan (Post 534278)
No it isn't. Ayn Rand was crazy. Truly one of the worst philosophers of all time.

How? You are going to actually have to point out some flaws in it so that you make any sense.

Quote:

Do you think only in extremes? The gaping flaw in your argument is the ridiculous extrapolation that you cannot value your life if it isn't your highest priority.
Altruism according to wikipedia is:

"Altruism is selfless concern for the welfare of others."

Selfless, meaning one does not value his interests above others.

Quote:

Sweden is basically socialist and they are doing quite well.
Socialism is slavery. If one cannot own what he works for then it is slavery. I don't care where it is going. Forcing one to give up property rights for your illogical beliefs is contradictory to the idea that another's interests should go before theirs.

The Monkey 10-22-2008 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword (Post 534290)
Socialism is slavery. If one cannot own what he works for then it is slavery. I don't care where it is going. Forcing one to give up property rights for your illogical beliefs is contradictory to the idea that another's interests should go before theirs.

What about those who cannot work? What about those whose jobs and money have been lost due to an economic crisis? What about the old, whose pension can no longer cover the necessities of life? What about the children born into poor families with little hope for higher education? Equal opportunity doesn't exist in today's society.

Inuzuka Skysword 10-22-2008 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey (Post 534293)
What about those who cannot work? What about those whose jobs and money have been lost due to an economic crisis? What about the old, whose pension can no longer cover the necessities of life? What about the children born into poor families with little hope for higher education? Equal opportunity doesn't exist in today's society.

All rights come from man's right to his own life. Nothing be a right if it violates someone else's right to life. Property rights are rights based on the right to life because a man must own property in order to sustain himself.

Society shouldn't have to care about those people. Charity can still be given to people because it is voluntary. Secondly, there has never been a truly free market in the world. In a truly free market, rational people will make it to the top. Kids inheriting companies from their dad's will probably not happen unless the kid knows the business well.

The Unfan 10-22-2008 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword (Post 534290)
How? You are going to actually have to point out some flaws in it so that you make any sense.

If reason is the only absolutely you can not reason out other absolutes. For instance, time is not absolute for time is not reason. However if you could reasonably determine that time necessarily exists than you must discard your previous stance.

Fruitonica 10-22-2008 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword (Post 534290)
Altruism according to wikipedia is:

"Altruism is selfless concern for the welfare of others."

Selfless, meaning one does not value his interests above others.

That addresses nothing about my post. From here explain how valuing someone's interest above your own means you cannot place any value on your own life.

Applenux 10-23-2008 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword (Post 534290)
Socialism is slavery. If one cannot own what he works for then it is slavery.

If one have to pay for hospital and can be killed legally, even if he's under 18, how do you call that ? A lot of people in the world would call that dictatorship. I call that USA.

And socialism DOESN'T mean you can't own what you work for. It means that even if you can't buy, food, health..., you can have it.

(USSR was a dictatorship, that's true, but every socialists nations aren't)

anticipation 10-23-2008 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unfan (Post 534278)
No it isn't. Ayn Rand was crazy. Truly one of the worst philosophers of all time.

yeah, developing a healty self-esteem and living life to the fullest sound like horrible ideas to me too.


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