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Old 06-14-2011, 03:45 AM   #331 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tore View Post
How is a chicken with it's skin on not organic?
cause it was cook in oil which is made out of fat.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:35 AM   #332 (permalink)
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I suppose if they you had vegan bodybuilder (Y) and omnivore bodybuilder (A), and they had the same protein & calorie intake & exercise... yeah, they may be able to put on muscle at a similar rate.

I do know that protein dense, lean meat (tuna, chicken breast) does require the body to burn calories to process it. I don't know if a protein dense vegetarian meal would have the same effect. And, although people often say that beans & rice is a great source of protein, would the vegetarian have to use more variety of grains to have the same effects on the body?
I don't think that vegetarians would need to use more grains besides rice (with beans) to acquire the protein for putting on muscle mass, but variety is usually a good idea in any diet. As for the calories needed to process a meat meal vs. a protein dense vegetarian meal, I don't know which takes more. I have read that meat takes a longer time to digest than vegetarian protein sources.

Thanks for replying! I didn't know if you were still reading the thread.

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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
I've recently heard that (and forgive my complete and utter lack of resources for this information, but it's the idea I wanted to bring up) scientists have been using animal stem cells to grow muscle independent of an animal for use as meat product.

Basically, what's the general feeling about eating grown meat, and is this a foreseeable to combat animal cruelty?
Eating meat tissue culture would reduce the number of animals harmed by people and so would be the more ethical choice in my opinion, Pedestrian, but not the *most* ethical choice.

I agree with Tore, though, that culturing meat tissue is very expensive and will never satisfy many people's habit of eating flesh, since they just wouldn't want to (or couldn't) pay that much money.

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Have meat levels in diets been discussed yet? Throughout most of history the average human has had a mostly carbohydrate-based diet with only very small amounts of meat that weren't taken daily. It's only in recent years that meat consumption has shot up, and not only is it making people fatter, but it's damaging the planet and making energy gains far less efficient. I'm not saying eating meat is bad, but there's certainly too much being eaten.
Agreed and agreed. And meat-consumption is increasing worldwide as people (especially in China) rise out of poverty. Eventually, I predict the ballooning human population will cause the competition between people and livestock for grains to become so great that most people won't be able to consume as many animals as they do now. Roadkill and animals who die of natural causes might start looking tastier and tastier to meat-eaters!

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Almost exactly what I was thinking.

As long as the humans died of natural causes, I shouldn't see why eating people (who are animals, after all) would be an ethical concern, as long as the deceased didn't state emphatically before death, "I don't want any person to eat me!"
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If a chicken was smart enough to be able to speak English and run in a geometric pattern, then I think it should be smart enough to dial 911 (999) before getting the axe, and scream to the operator, "Something must be done! Something must be done!"

Last edited by VEGANGELICA; 06-14-2011 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:59 AM   #333 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mykonos View Post
Have meat levels in diets been discussed yet? Throughout most of history the average human has had a mostly carbohydrate-based diet with only very small amounts of meat that weren't taken daily. It's only in recent years that meat consumption has shot up, and not only is it making people fatter, but it's damaging the planet and making energy gains far less efficient. I'm not saying eating meat is bad, but there's certainly too much being eaten.
how recent are you talking about? Also what's making people fatter is not meat consumption alone but carbs play a big part in that and just generally unhealthy diet habits overall. I don't see how you can come to the dramatic conclusion that the planet is being damaged from this. I can understand if you tried to link deforestation to having another meat packing plant built or something along those lines. Eating too much of anything is bad for you not just meat.

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Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA View Post
I don't think that vegetarians would need to use more grains besides rice (with beans) to acquire the protein for putting on muscle mass, but variety is usually a good idea in any diet. As for the calories needed to process a meat meal vs. a protein dense vegetarian meal, I don't know which takes more. I have read that meat takes a longer time to digest than vegetarian protein sources.
Meat does take longer to digest but there is this wild theory that meat stays in your colon for years or some such non-sense. The only meat that will stay in there that long is if you go around and don't eat any fiber whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA View Post
Agreed and agreed. And meat-consumption is increasing worldwide as people (especially in China) rise out of poverty. Eventually, I predict the ballooning human population will cause the competition between people and livestock for grains to become so great that most people won't be able to consume as many animals as they do now. Roadkill and animals who die of natural causes might start looking tastier and tastier to meat-eaters!
I'm sorry but that couldn't be farther from the truth. People will continue to use up as many resources as possible til we get to the point where it's MadMax style but instead of fighting over water it will be over food in general.

That's why I'm all for wars and I tend to like when natural disasters occur but it's curbing the human population a bit.

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As long as they died of natural causes, I shouldn't see why eating humans (animals, after all) would be an ethical concern, as long as the person didn't state emphatically before death, "I don't want any person to eat me."
The thing about eating humans, sure to some people there might be an ethical concern because they feel more connected to humans than they do animals. Yes, I know humans are animals but you know what I mean.

Also, I don't think there are many eatable parts to a human that are nutritious except for the liver and possibly the heart.
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:41 AM   #334 (permalink)
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also, when you are a vegetarian but would like to try meat though not in a very glutonous extent, you can try making a burger made out of ground pork with some sliced cabbage along with it. the cabbage overcomes the taste of the meat.
Uh, no. I don't eat meat because I disagree with farming practices and the growing reliance on animal products, not because I don't like the taste of it.
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:56 AM   #335 (permalink)
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hi, would you eat an animal if they died from natural causes? -as opposed to being killed.
No. I hate the idea of eating an animal full stop. The thought of my stomach being a pet cemetery makes me ill.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:00 PM   #336 (permalink)
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In answer to alot of tore's questions.

Well wouldn't it be survival instinct? I'm not about to give myself up to a lion because it's hungry. I want to be the one to survive and eat others. Not him.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:26 PM   #337 (permalink)
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Uh, no. I don't eat meat because I disagree with farming practices and the growing reliance on animal products, not because I don't like the taste of it.
what? i don't understand you. farming is for vegetables, not for meat. if ou disagree with a farming practice, you disagree on a vegetable. unless you have a different definition of farming.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:58 PM   #338 (permalink)
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what? i don't understand you. farming is for vegetables, not for meat. if ou disagree with a farming practice, you disagree on a vegetable. unless you have a different definition of farming.
when trolling, try to be a little less obvious.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:58 PM   #339 (permalink)
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was he talking to me?
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i havent i refuse to in fact. it triggers my ptsd from yrs ago when i thought my ex's anal beads were those edible candy necklaces
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:51 PM   #340 (permalink)
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what? i don't understand you. farming is for vegetables, not for meat. if ou disagree with a farming practice, you disagree on a vegetable. unless you have a different definition of farming.
Factory farming is the practice or process of raising livestock in confinement at high density. Farm here refers to the factory where animals are confined. It is used by industrial farmers.

you can read more about it here:

Factory Farming, what is factory farm? - The Issues - Sustainable Table
Facts: Factory Farming

hope that helps.
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