Above

I will agree that we are less primal in modern times. A LOT less by those standards (At least in the developed world. Witch burnings and ethnic cleansing are still widespread in Africa), except for capital punishment. When someone is put to death in the United States, it is treated like a fucking holiday. That says a lot about the human condition to me.

On topic; I love meat and if that makes me amoral, so be it.

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Be pure,
Be vigilant,
Behave

The Batlord

You know, I don't think anybody who engages in moral and intellectual laziness of this sort has any right to get pissed off when someone complains that they're doing something harmful to another creature.

Not that I'm trying to pick on you, but if you say that you're okay with being amoral as long as you get to eat meat, you should then be okay if it's pointed out.

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Above

I'd like to know where I got pissed off.

__________________
Be pure,
Be vigilant,
Behave

The Batlord

Well, like I said, I wasn't necessarily trying to pick on you specifically. I've seen lots of sentiments like yours expressed by people who often times get defensive about vegetarians "preaching".

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Above

I stated my case and people disagreed with it. I'm not morally lazy for that. I just have different morals than you.

__________________
Be pure,
Be vigilant,
Behave

lucifer_sam

I meant sane people.

I don't view animals as a commodity to be used up and thrown away; I think a certain measure of respect should be given to a living creature whom you sacrifice for your own personal well-being. That, I think, is something most people can agree on. If that means ensuring the happiness of the animal prior to slaughter, I support the endeavor wholeheartedly.

Could you please explain the logic behind your decision to avoid animal products entirely? This is what confuses the hell out of me. Try not using outside sources; express it in your own words.

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first.am

skaltezon

.

Even non-vegetarians should be concerned about cruelty committed by some factory farms to satisfy their appetites for meat. Then it becomes not a matter of giving up meat-eating but rather of taking an interest in the humane treatment of the animals who are raised for slaughter.



Treating the animals better has consequent health benefits for humans too.

.. .. .. ..

Welcome. Here it is again:


Mercy For Animals Dairy Investigation


Mercy for Animals presented a detailed complaint to the Cayuga County District Attorney,
documenting Willet's violation of New York animal cruelty laws.

But the DA declined to prosecute documented violations that were 'commonly-accepted industry practices'.
And with regard to the rampant neglect that presumably wouldn't be 'commonly-accepted industry practices',
the DA's office apparently agreed to prosecute only if the ASPCA recommended it following a separate investigation.
I don't know if the ASPCA investigation was ever done, but the requirement seems unnecessary, and it improperly
attempts to shift the DA's responsibility onto a private organization, wasting time in the process.
Cow Torture Video: Willet Dairy Caught Burning Off Cows' Horns, Chopping Calf's Tail In Mercy For Animals Expose


Tail docking is found in about half of American dairy farms, according to a 2002 U.S. Department of Agriculture report.
The practice was banned in California in 2009 and a bill to prohibit it is now before the New York state legislature.
Nightline Wins Genesis Award for 'Got Milk?' From Humane Society
Text of NY Tail-Docking Bill

.. .. .. ..

That is interesting. Responsible people will want to know whether animals raised for slaughter are treated humanely,
especially if they eat the meat that comes from it. And others will be concerned about attempts to make information-gathering a felony:


Factory Farm bills of Florida, Iowa, and Minnesota seek to
criminalize undercover documentation of factory farm operations.

.. .. .. ..

The Florida bill was passed in the Senate as SB 1246 but died in the House in May. It was originally intended to prohibit "a person from entering onto a farm and making any audio record, photograph, or video record at the farm without the owner's written consent" and provided exceptions, definitions and penalties. Senate Bill 1246 (2011) - The Florida Senate

But apparently it was later amended to prohibit photographs from roadside as well, and made the offenses a felony.
Jaclyn Glenn gives a good overview of both the animal welfare and freedom of information issues.



March amendments by the Senate removed the roadside and felony provisions before the bill died in the House.

.. .. .. ..

The Iowa House and Senate have already passed differing versions of a bill called ""A BILL FOR An Act relating to offenses involving agricultural operations, and providing penalties and remedies". The next legislative step is for a joint reconciliation committee to determine the bill's final form, and it'll be voted on again by the full House and Senate.

A good commentary and unofficial source for the text of the House and Senate bills is at Senate & House Bills SF431 & HF589 | Sustainable Food

.. .. .. ..

In Minnesota, Senate File 1118 and House File 1369 (also called Minnesota’s ‘ag-gag’ bills) would criminalize blowing the whistle on animal cruelty, food safety problems, or labor or environmental abuses inside puppy and kitten mills or factory farms by making it a crime to take video inside such facilities, or even for the news media to possess or distribute these images. Incredibly, images of animal suffering would be given the same status as kiddie porn.
Minnesota Bill Targets Investigators Who Expose Animal Suffering at Factory Farms, Labs, Puppy Mills

Both bills failed to get a hearing and the 2011 legislative session ended without passage. As Minnesota functions on a two-year legislative cycle, the ag-gag bill could still be heard and voted on in the 2012 session.

Update on Minnesota ag-gag bill | Minnesota Voters for Animal Protection

Here's the text of the Senate bill: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/bldbi...l&session=ls87

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hip hop bunny hop

All dairy cows get killed, so I fail to see your point. Besides, butchered dairy cattle provide a cheap source of protein for poor - where do you think the beef in crappy canned foods comes from?

And? All chickens get killed. Further, I fail to see how maceration is worst than the traditional method of wringing necks.

lolwut? As long as farming and the distribution of agricultural goods remains within the realms of the market, animals will be a commodity.

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Have mercy on the poor.

MoonlitSunshine

Are you kidding me? Do you honestly think that brutally torturing something to death is the same as quickly ending its life as painlessly as possible?

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"I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?"

- Arthur Dent

hip hop bunny hop

You know, if you could copy & paste the particular portion of my statement that you're responding to, it'd make life easier on everyone.

Now, are you referring to my comment regarding wringing necks?

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Have mercy on the poor.