Another nazi community.

Great.

Please, just delete my account. I can't take uptight puss1es.

Although I appreciate the fact that you make this unquestionably easy, I think you should know that if we let everyone storm around this forum pissing everyone off and trolling every thread, we'd be an internet trash bin. We're not because we don't.
You obviously don't understand that, so have a week to think about it and after that period, if you come to some strange realization that you joined a music forum to talk about music and not insult other people on the internet because you've run out of chatrooms, then please... by all means... come back.

meat would not be murder. it is part of a balance the human body has made to ensure the peak of growth and health. if you don't eat produce, you sacrifice health for physique, and vice versa with vegetarians. if one is too biased with the choice, then the choice will be unstable. to survive and live long like this would take a miracle. balance was created for a reason.

"A miracle!" :) And yet, thomasracer, I live and am healthy, with better cholesterol levels than when I ate meat! I was also vegan when I gave birth to a healthy child, who is vegetarian and healthy.

More importantly, studies show that a vegetarian diet is healthful and in some ways offers benefits over animal-based diets since vegetarian diets usually include less saturated fat, less cholesterol, fewer carcinogens, and more cancer-fighting compounds. Also, vegetarians and meat-eaters have equal lifespans, although vegetarians generally suffer from fewer chronic diseases (such as heart disease and Type II diabetes).

So I wonder about the source of your information or idea that being vegetarian sacrifices health. Is this something you learned in school, because I've heard from students that sometimes teachers, lacking accurate information about vegetarianism, teach children that vegetarianism is unhealthful.

I was being told the other day that vegetarianism is really unhealthy and such.
I thought it was kind of annoying, considering a lot of things are unhealthy.
Eating mozzarella sticks and fries is unhealthy, and ALSO vegetarian.
I don't think people should try to impose their views on me.
Aside from the fact that it's annoying, I'm one of the few people who try not to tell people I'm a vegetarian for fear of coming off as pompous or imposing.
People have asked me before if I mind them eating meat near me, or people have changed meals just so I can eat.
I've also been asked questions about vegetarianism while I was eating with someone who ate meat, and I find that very awkward.
I'm not going to explain all of the reasons animal-cruelty is disgusting while you're eating meat, I think that's rude and obnoxious.

I don't remember where I was going with this, but it's two in the morning.
I'll finish my rant tomorrow.

My million dollar response: Of course it is murder but it is essential and delicious. So **** off trying to guilt me into believing I am inhumane, you bastards.

Agree on all of this

A lot of times, with friends we'll be getting food and they'll ask me if I want to have some of theirs and I have to tell them that I can't, because I don't eat meat. They all gasp and say "SINCE WHEN!!!" and it's funny because I've been a vegetarian for donkey's years, but it doesn't come up. Vegetarianism is hardly unhealthy as long as you get all your vitamins and all that and don't overload on fatty things just because they dont have meat

Exactly.
I don't take vitamins, though.
I'm going to take one now. [=

Why is meat essential?

Why are vegetables essential? both can be cut from the diet without dramatic effects.

Yes, neither meat nor vegetables are essential in the human diet, which is the reason I asked Laurent Quinn Proper why s/he stated that "meat is essential."

I looked up all-meat diets to learn a little more about them. The traditional Inuit diet appears to be composed entirely of fish and other raw flesh (with a little "fireweed," a plant, occasionally): "Vitamins and minerals which are typically derived from plant sources are nonetheless present in most Inuit diets. Vitamins A and D are present in the oils and livers of cold-water fishes and mammals. Vitamin C is obtained through sources such as caribou liver, kelp, whale skin, and seal brain; because these foods are typically eaten raw or frozen, the vitamin C they contain, which would be destroyed by cooking, is instead preserved.[6]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet

well, remember vangelica, i said balanced. doesn't it occur to you why we are created as omnivores? because both meat and produce are needed for the peak of human development. meat, with its fat and cholestrol, also help someone keep warm, of course in moderation, just like produce. while the body needs to not be hacking badly, it cannot afford to work with weak muscle fibers, thus is the work of protein, which in no meatless salad is found. the same science you use against me works for me.

Thomasracer, omnivores are organisms that are able to eat diets ranging from primarily plant-based foods to primarily meat-based foods. The healthfulness of the diet depends on whether it supplies necessary nutrients to maintain healthy development and avoid disease, not on the balance of meat and produce in the diet.

What is the source of your view that "both meat and produce are needed for the peak of human development?" This doesn't match with any literature I have read. Millions of people are ovo-lacto vegetarian, for example, and eat no meat, yet are very healthy, showing that meat is in fact not needed for peak human development. Also, since vitamin B12 can be synthesized by organic chemists, there is now no need for any animal products in the human diet.

Plants provide ample protein in the diet. Rice and beans; peanut butter and wheat; corn and beans: all easily provide all the essential and non-essential amino acids that one needs. A meatless salad of corn and beans could provide all your protein needs at a meal.

Here is an example of a research article that found that plant-based diets with grain as the main protein source supplied the protein needs of childrens and adults in India:

The best form of protein.

I honestly don't dislike animals but when a vegetarian or vegan is around, I'll treat animals like **** just to spite them and their pressing ways.

Why do you assume all vegeterians and vegans try to press their way of life onto you? If you try so hard to push your opinions on them then they are entitled to do the same thing to you.

I don't try to press my opinions on anybody... I merely stated that when a vegan is around, I will over-do any of my regular routines to annoy them while they press you with their bombardment of question directed to guilt you into feeling pity for an animal.

I'm not in here telling anyone to eat meat or not to eat meat, that is their own personal decision. I am replying to the thread with my own actions.

EDIT: You are right about one thing, not all vegetarians or vegans press their opinions on people, however the majority (I have encountered) do.

I went out with a vegetarian and her family were all big vegans, I began to ask questions out of curiosity to her dad etc.

And he was just like well it's a life choice, I wouldn't wanna tell you things that would put you off.

So I was like fair enough, banging on about how inhumane it is wouldn't deter me anyway, but it's nice that he didn't lay out his beliefs even after I gave him the opportunity to do so.

Then you might want to choose your words a little more carefully because this...

..pretty much says that you do press your opinions on other people and that you consider all vegans to be the same. It also suggests cruelty to animals more than eating meat, by the way.

I guess you can infer that with my spite, I am pressing my opinions onto them? I have never really thought about it in that fashion. It's more of a "hey, you know what? Feck you and this cow" type of response. I don't intend any kind of undertones, though.

And the reason, I say I treat animals poorly when a vegan is around is because typically a vegan has a bleeding heart for animals, and so animal cruelty and eating meat alike pisses them off. Which I find humorous.

And as I have said earlier, you are right about me generalizing vegetarians and vegan. But the majority I have encountered are the way I generalize them.

I also find it humorous when people get mad over stupid problems. Poking them only comes natural.

So, Laurent, you acknowledge that when you wrote, "Meat is essential," that statement was factually incorrect. Instead, your view is that meat is "the best form of protein."

I counter your claim that meat is "the best form of protein" with THIS:

Your turn. Let's see watcha got. :)

EDIT: Laurent, I can't change your feelings about animals. I feel it is a good thing to be kind to animals. You, apparently, disagree. I wish you felt differently, but I can't change that.

However, what I can do is debate whether statements you or I make are correct or not. Some of what you wrote makes me think you may not have had much opportunity to read about nutrition issues related to vegetarianism. Vegetarian nutrition is an area I'm fairly knowledgable about, so I'm glad to hear your nutrition concerns, in case those are one reason you disparage plant-based diets.

So you obviously haven't been reading the thread.
Both Paloma and I are vegetarian and can't STAND pressing our views upon other people.
If I'm eating a veggie burger, I don't say anything to anyone about it.
But for some reason you think it's okay to disgust me and treat an animal like shit?
That hasn't happened to me since 9th grade.

So you say you're not pushing your views on people, although that's arguably exactly what you are doing when making an effort to confront people with them .. instead you say you just make an effort to act like a jerk. Trying to upset them like a real life forum troll? :rolleyes:

I'd preferably deal with the annoying morally "superior" vegan nag over the likes of you any day.

We are animals like any other species, and we've earned our spot as the dominating one. Perhaps as a conscious, thinking being we must be aware that with power comes responsibility, and we should protect animals and avoid their killings when alternative foods exist, however besides for domesticated animals I think they lost the rat race to dominant species and should suffer the consequences of being our food. Yay!

I'm sorry to waste your time but I won't read the rest of your post. Not that I am afraid to be "wrong", it's just well, frankly, I couldn't care less about your facts and opinions. Meat is the best and most delicious form of protein for me. And that's that.

I haven't and don't care to.

I've already answered this before but I will again. I am not trying to press my views and, or beliefs when I purposely eat meat or talk ill about animals in front of vegetarians or vegans. It's more or less, "hey feck you, I don't care about your beliefs, feck this cow too" type of response. That's my personal response and I don't encourage others to reply in such an ignorant fashion.

And quite honestly, with your last statement, you have just made my day. That's exactly why I do it.

I'm sorry to have offended some but it's just the internet and dumb animals.

*Bold denotes where I read to.

None of this makes sense to me, you purposely do it, which is shoving your beliefs in someone else's face, knowing that they have opposing views, yet you say you're not "trying to press them on them" when that's EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING? Why even bother doing it in the first place if not to illicit a response? Just to make a jackass of yourself?

You didn't waste my time at all, Laurent Quinn Proper. The time I spend on MusicBanter is my free time. I always learn something during the process of writing replies here on MB, whether or not people read or respond...though of course it is nicer when people do. I like learning about other people and their views.

I'm not offended that you don't care about facts and others' opinions. You can't make yourself care about something you don't care about. I don't care about everything myself. For example, who the U.S. talk show hosts are isn't important to me.

I am glad, though, to have finally gotten down to the bottom of your reasoning behind defending meat-eating. At first you wrote that "meat is essential." I showed that to be incorrect. Then you changed your statement to "Meat is the best form of protein" (an argument I also blew out of the water). Finally, you stated that you feel "meat is the best and most delicious form of protein for me." I can't argue with that, because it is your opinion and feeling.

If you expect anyone to accept your opinion, then you must be prepared to accept theirs. Otherwise, you're just... how did you say? "Forcing your opinion on others".

I don't understand what you gain out of asserting your opinion without even the slightest regard for how it is received. Sounds to me exactly like what you condemn. Either that, you're you're just wasting energy.

If you understand that type of response is ignorant, why do it? You like to come off as an ignorant ****? This is fascinating to me.

Let me ask...why did you even post in here? This is one of the most kept alive threads, and this tells me the people arguing in it are very passionate about their views. From your responses, I can think of no other reason for you posting in here other than you just wanted to piss some people off.

Honestly, guys, everyone that's replying to his messages is smart enough to realize the differences between right and wrong.
He clearly stated that he has not read the opinions of everyone who stated them, nor does he care to.
For this reason, I no longer find important in replying to someone who feels the need to state their opinion while being so rude to those of other people who feel strongly about the same subject.

In other words? I'm done, and I think this person's a waste of everyone's time. You're too smart to be arguing with someone that closed-minded.

You just indirectly responded to him with that post...HA!

Just messing...I see what you are saying. Sometimes, I'm just legitimately interested to know what is going through someone's head when they do stuff like that.

Good point, A.
:D

Sometimes, im just legitimately interested to know why this thread is still going. All its done is attract morons to it hell bent on pissing people off.

Being against veganism and vegetarianism is one thing - keep it to your ****ing self and don't beat the **** out of a helpless animal because you'd rather cut your nose off to spite your ****ing face!! Wanker.

I do too

[=

Because some of us like to talk about it.
I like hearing what people like to say.
Freebase and you aren't vegetarians, but you have some interesting things to say about the subject.

It can be interesting when its an intelligent discussion. Theres been plenty of mindless insults and stupid "arguments" so far though, moreso than in most threads i would say.

Threads like these do tend to become troll playgrounds if not kept an eye on. I do find it quite tiring .. Being anti, cynical, respectless is so easy and also the oldest, most worn-out attitude on the internet today. If all you can write is "X sucks" without being able to give any explanation as to why, it only shows how ignorant you are. From many years of reading forums, aside from seeing it employed by people with a general lack of respect of other people and opinions, that general attitude is almost always adopted by those who don't possess enough knowledge to strengthen themselves or their beliefs\positions using logical arguments.

I don't think trolls should be in control of what threads are open/active on the boards and which ones are not .. But, granted, this discussion has been flaming up and dying over and over again several times by now so this particular thread might soon be ripe for closure.

Thats only reason i keep checking it mate. I think it should stay if there are people here actually discussing and are interested in it but if it continues to be derailed by trolling, ignorance, insults and general stupidity then its not worth the hassle. I think it should either stay on topic and produce some intelligent discussion, or at least as intelligent as public forums go, or go the journey.

Vegetarians are so stupid.
I'm going to torture all of the ants I find in spite of them.
Bitches.
I hate all of you.




=D Like that, Jojooo? <3

I actually think it's high time this one got closed.
As much as I like to see a thread I started active, whenever I check it for progress, I just see people discussing the same old points again, and heated arguments starting all over.
I suppose the question itself was answered quite early on, though it was more of a nifty title than anything else; but there was a time in which I recall tore and VEGANGELICA, for example, actually providing interesting information and discussing the amiably, and that suited the purpose of the thread.
Oh well, my two cents, I suppose.