Looking at what I wrote, I did generalize a bit. The parents of one of my friends own a pig farm and her mother still cries sometimes when they slaughter one of the pigs. What I should have written is rather that they may have a different perception of animals and either way, they know how it happens, they've come to terms with and they choose to do it.

I like to think I'm a bit the same. The first years of my life were spent around a farm, my father taught me to fish and pick crabs, I've helped slaughter reindeer. I feel like I'm reasonably aware of what having meat in the stores entail in this country and while there are negatives, I'm overall for it. Vegetarianism hasn't really caught on in Norway yet (there's a reason for that too), but I've studied with vegetarians from Finland and Germany. It seems much more popular in those countries.


Something related which I really don't like is when people criticize hunters while eating their industry meat meals. At least an animal which has been hunted has had the privilege of living a natural life up until the point it got killed for better or worse and I'd take my chances with that over living the life of the average McDonald's burger pig.

Meat is literally murder, but it's a world of competition and fighting out there.
I'm a vegetarian because I think it's sad to hurt animals for my own well-being.
I don't preach to other people though.

I don't think "meat is murder" because, as Urban has already pointed out, the word implies unlawful killing. Do you commit murder every time you step on a bug and kill it without even knowing about it? ;)

Misusing the word like that only steals away it's currently useful meaning.

I'm not a vegan but I do have really strange food tastes. I don't enjoy pork, but I like bacon. However I don't like bacon by itself, only on a sandwich with other things. I don't like beef, but I love beef jerky. This is probably because the texture is completely different and heavily flavored. The one meat I do like is chicken.. but I don't like turkey. Not saying they're similar but they're both poultry so I figured I'd add that in. I love ham when it's in sliced form and put on a sandwich. Ham steaks are a big no no. Pepperoni and salami are both fantastic.

I could probably be a vegan but that sounds boring. I'm interested in food so I wouldn't want to limit my possibilities. I think if I tried meat in an interesting and flavorful way I may change my mind. I've grown up with it only served 2 ways: in a pan or on the grill.. without anything done to it.

The one meat I won't go near is venison. The smell of cooking venison is nauseating

i totally hear ya, i've been elbows deep in guts before too, it's part of what it is. it's not like animals in nature sit around together and all have nice little tea parties when the evil humans aren't trying to mercilessly slaughter them.

i'm not foolish enough to try justifying past hunts that were completely unsustainable and destructive to the biodiversity of ecosystems. but at the same time, survival of the fittest IS a fundamental of nature. seems to me we're also part of nature and as such, we're likely going to need to kill to survive at some point regardless of who's hands end up bloodied.

as for all this meat talk... i'm gonna go cook some steak now :wave:

Humans eat meat and will continue to eat meat. That's an indisputable fact but because there are so many of us on the planet, the methods of keeping up with this demand means that it is left to others to supply our meat instead of us hunting ourselves which means that it becomes an industry that we have no control over anymore.

I eat meat but I certainly try to eat organic and/or free range whenever possible to at least give a living animal a life that they deserve. It's still ridiculously hypocritical to feel this way when I should be of the opinion that the meat I eat should be killed by myself and cause the least amount of suffering.

The natural order of the food chain is kill or be killed and that cannot be changed due to the evolution of the world but as the most intelligent species on the planet we are grossly negligent of retaining natures equilibrium due to the massive amount of meat that we eat which leads to an accepted ignorance to where our food comes from and how it gets to our plate.

Even if 1/5 of the world's population became vegetarian it still would not change the way animals are farmed and slaughtered because demand equals money and money is king, certainly in the western world.

The little man can rarely defeat the big man no matter how hard we try or hope to try. We can only make individual choices such as eating only free range meat to at least make world suppliers create better environments for animals to live in.

I came across this video a few weeks ago and it certainly makes for disturbing viewing.

Meat.org | The Website the Meat Industry Doesn't Want You to See

Meat.org | The Website the Meat Industry Doesn't Want You to See...is the website meat eaters and normal human beings don't want to see.

Right then...I'm off for a bacon sarny. :D

:rolleyes:

I expected a more intelligent response than flippancy :( Especially from yourself.

It wasn't as flippant as appears.
It happens to be very true and relative to the previous discussions taking place in this thread.
Eating meat is perfectly normal for a meat eating mammal.
Add intelligence (like bill pointed out) and you have a moral problem.
Add a little more intelligence...and hey presto! Why sweat it?

You haven't had back strap

and all I'm trying to point out is that we can all make minor adjustments to the way we buy meat that would be beneficial to the animals even though we never interact with them.

My post clearly states that we are meat eaters but even eating only free range meat may make big companies adjust their policies even if I haven't the balls to forgo meat.

http://http://images.media-allrecipe...mall/94341.jpg

(you'll have to click, I cant post pics)

ingredients

* 2 pounds venison backstrap (tenderloin), cut into 2 inch chunks
* 1 quart apple cider
* 1 1/2 pounds thick sliced bacon
* 2 (12 ounce) bottles barbecue sauce, your choice

Directions

1. Place chunks of venison into a shallow baking dish, and pour enough apple cider in to cover them. Cover, and refrigerate for 2 hours. Remove, and pat dry. Discard apple cider, and return venison to the dish. Pour barbeque sauce over the chunks, cover, and refrigerate for 2 to 3 more hours.
2. Preheat an outdoor grill for high heat. Charcoal is best, but if you must, use gas. Remove meat from the refrigerator, and let stand for 30 minutes, or until no longer chilled. Wrap each chunk of venison in a slice of bacon, and secure with toothpicks.
3. Brush the grill grate with olive oil when hot, and place venison pieces on the grill so they are not touching. The bacon will kick up some flames, so be ready. Grill, turning occasionally, until the bacon becomes slightly burnt, 15 to 20 minutes. The slower, the better. Dig in, and prepare to want more!

We both know it isn't going to happen.
There are more pressing matters in the world that deserve more action. Take the pollution from automobiles as an example.
Walking everywhere won't make a blind bit of difference.
The vast majority of us will still get the bus, except lifts, buy packaged meat etc.

I don't drive so I'm exempt :) If every single person walked it would make a difference but we are digressing.

I just find it a shame that most of us (and I include myself) are entwined in the machinations of big business because of their ability to provide convenience for us all.

It's times like this that I am almost ashamed of being human and the lack of respect we give to our surroundings and the way we live our lives. We really are a bunch of cunts :(

Now you're talking.

speaking of hunting and the least amount of suffering. just a tangent of curiosity.

arrows or bullets?

is the suffering any different? is one method more humane than the other?

That's why I make sure my food is free ranged. Paying a little extra IS NOT as difficult as it would be to wlak instead of drive. This one is all about conveinence/price.

But we can't wait for people to solve these things on their own, we've got to stick it to the man, man ;).

But i'm not a saint, it works well for me because I have friends who hunt small game legally - there's a population to keep in check so hunting is encouraged at certain times of the year. Another guiltless food is Aligator - hunting of them is encouraged because of the overlysuccessful breeding program. Just keeping it in check ;)
I would imagine bullets being far more effective and cleaner - as long as aimed correctly... otherwise not so much.

It would be nice if everything reverted back to simpler times. I know we'd appreciate life a lot more than we currently do. Maybe we'd miss some of the luxuries we have now, but at least we'd get a clear picture of all the things we take for granted.
I know it's assuming too much to think the mass majority would ever consider taking that step, but in the very least, if we change our ways of thinking and teach our children about it, there may be hope in the distant future that eventually the mass majority will support making some changes for the ultimate good and equillibrium of our society and the planet on which we live.

Thanks for again reminding us all that you are completely crazy.

convenience is good. What if we all had to make out own shoes.

I wonder when sustainability will work its way into morality

I would love to be able to make my own shoes!

Me too. I can never find a pair of shoes that I like

You could make some really fancy ones too, imagine the money you'd save too. Shoes are expensive.

Oh totally.

Don't worry vegan MBers, I will use 100% dirt fed, free range grass.

or leather

In other news, how bout those Prius recalls

enter the t-rex...
 

.

I don't think anyone was passing judgement on those who were around long before we were. I didn't see anyone mention that it's inherently wrong to eat meat. Everyone who seemed to oppose seemed to do it because of moral purposes, and just because they didn't consider that ages ago doesn't mean it's foolish to do so now. Things change and lifestyles adapt. It wasn't a business then, and an animal wasn't viewed as some product towards a capitalistic gain; it was there for you to survive. Things have evolved since those times.

Also, in regards to what you said before, the price isn't always the most important thing. I'd much rather not buy a beakless, boneless chicken because it saves me a couple dollars.

Whats your stance on beating your meat? Or someone elses meat?

Btw, worst Smiths song ever.

Ha ha, you crack me up man. I feel neither is appropriate, but having someone else beat your meat is.

Does this mean you consider animals unworthy of beating your meat?

It is very convenient to beat my own meat, but sometimes I outsource it to my girlfriend

That why I buy her shoes!

**** nigga you buy her shoes for handjobs only?
Back in my day I had to **** for my shoes.

Crazy kids.

/derailed

I wonder why Vegangelica hasn't posted in here yet?

Anyways, vegetarianism makes perfect sense from a sustainability point of view - as pointed out by others like Jackhammer. Put very simply, the energy you get from eating beef comes from the sun. It was first harvested by grass which does photosynthesis and then the cow ate it and turned it into cow meat. The thing is the cow uses a lot of that energy to do other things, like power all it's cellular processes and so on. In the end, you need many kilograms of grass to make one kilogram of cow. Cutting out the cow and eating the grass is much more economical.

We can't eat grass, of course, but just switch if for veggies.

A cynical argument against the sustainability point of view is that the world human population is doomed to grow way beyond the carrying capacity of our planet no matter what we do. It is inevitable and the more people we are when that happens, the more will suffer and the more damage we'll do to our planet and it's ecosystems.


On a more optimistic note - for those who are vegetarians because of animal suffering, I'm quite confident it's just a matter of time before we start growing our meat in petri dishes. Stem cell technology food! First someone has to do it and then it will have to get really cheap so that the industry will make the switch and then the big meat industries can grow meat in factories while some small farmers can possibly stay afloat in the meat market if they can make products that are able to compete in regards to taste etc.

It'll take a while, but I believe it's the future. ;)

Sorry but, I only eat my meat slaughtered.

Still wouldn't eat it.

I'm just a fan of food in general. I'm not glorifying or justifying the mass enslavement and slaughter of certain creatures, but I also recognize that human beings are designed to be omnivorous. Not to mention a creature that has experienced adrenaline in it's life tastes different than something that spent it's entire life in a warehouse or a cage. Venison in particular makes me feel energized after I eat it.

Venison smells like rotten eggs when it cooks :(

My mama made venison chilli tonight ughh

Sensitive olfactory?

I would eat the fuck out of some venison chili.

Guess so.

I like my vegan chili :) No one in my house has the decency to like, ever take meat out of the things we eat at dinner so I always have to make my own food:(