FETCHER.

Sorry but that pig was hilarious

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VEGANGELICA

Why? Is it the sunglasses? Or the apple in the mouth?

I think that our ability to respond to death with humor is interesting...and something I sometimes do, too, Kayleigh. Does the pig's picture seem hilarious because you know people aren't supposed to trivialize death (supposedly), and yet the people who killed the pig and then dressed her or him up in sunglasses did the opposite?

Most pictures of dead beings don't usually seem funny to me, but rather make me feel sober. Like this one of cyclone victims. If they had garish sunglasses put on their faces, would it make the picture funny? Or would it make their death seem even sadder.

I'd feel sadder if I saw someone trivializing their death by putting garish sunglasses on them....even though, of course, these victims wouldn't know they were being dressed up in death for others to enjoy. My response to the picture of the pig is similar. It makes me sad that people think the pig's life was of no value except as a source of amusement and pleasure for others.

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FETCHER.

It was funny because em... pigs don't usually wear specs? I didn't find it funny just because it was dead too, if it were alive i'd have found it equally comical.

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Guybrush

Being a vegan, you can of course write this sort of stuff without coming across as a hypocrite because what you write comes into conflict with your own meat eating habits .. so that's a good basis to start from.

I'll comment quickly still! Whaling has been part of my education because it's a topic in resource management which I've been coursed in, although not that much time was dedicated to that particular topic. As far as I know and from what I was taught, most of the whales shot by the grenade harpoons are knocked unconcious and get severly brain damaged. That shouldn't come as a surprise, I mean .. a grenade explodes inside them!

Source : ScienceDirect - Neuroscience Research : Blast-induced neurotrauma in whales

The page you linked argues that unconciousness is hard to figure out. I disagree, I think if the animal is not moving or responding to stimuli and it's not dead, then it's likely to be unconcious. Also, I'm a bit sceptical about those numbers from the reports. One should always be a bit careful as whaling is a subject which stirs many emotions and so you always have to assume that those who write about it are trying to manipulate you.

The numbers of whales dying instantaneously, as I was taught, is more consistent with those referred to in the study I linked above :

Also an interesting bit of info is this conclusion :

The grenade harpoon is designed with a wish for quicker and more humane way to kill whales in mind. I believe it is more effective than many want to believe.


The argument that whales are intelligent seems a little general. Again, you are a vegan, so coming from you, it sorta makes sense. I'm sure you would argue the intelligence of many animals. Coming from a meat eater, I would say how do you know that minke whales are more intelligent than the pigs you eat? I'm not convinced they are.

Of course there are people who eat "smart" dolphins as well. Again, I think I'd worry more about whether or not the hunting is sustainable rather than how intelligent the whales are.

edit :

I should perhaps clarify what I think of whaling. I think the whaling industry which targets minke whales is harmless. The number of animals hunted compared to the populations or global populations of minke whales is so miniscule that it doesn't pose any discernible ecological threat. Just as I'm not principally against hunting elk, I'm not against hunting minke whales. As for the other species of whales, I'm a bit more sceptical. It depends on the case and the species, but I'm generally against hunting endangered species. I'm not sure the cultural argument is good enough when species come close to extinction. Ancestors have done many things through the ages .. should we copy everything they did? In some ways, attempts at preserving cultures as they were before the rise of modern society seems like an excercise in futility. It's doomed for failure.

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DearJenny

Found this and made me think of this thread:

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FETCHER.

I asked my mum today and she didn't know so hopefully erica you can answer!

Do vegans wear wool?

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MAStudent

I killed a chile verde burrito today

VEGANGELICA

Yes, that is an advantage of being vegan, tore!

One problem with this situation is that 20% of the whales did *not* die instantaneously. I'm not sure if lack of moving or response to stimuli definitely means these whales were unconscious...and it troubles me that people persist in killing whales *not knowing* for sure if they are unconscious or not. By law, land mammals (in the U.S.) are supposed to be knocked unconscious before they are killed; anything less than that is considered inhumane. So, by that definition I consider how whales are killed--such that some may be conscious of the pain and trauma--to be inhumane.

Of course, for me whether the killing of whales is nearly instantaneous or not isn't the primary issue, since I feel people shouldn't be killing whales in the first place. But when they are killed, I feel the killers shouldn't just say, "We're pretty sure most of them are unconscious quickly." And worse, I feel it is unethical to test on the whales how long it takes for them to die, since people know some may suffer: "Oh, we think they are unconscious. Hey, let's kill some whales and measure how long it takes for them to die! Oops! It takes a while for some! Sorry there, buddy!"

I don't feel culture should ever be used as an excuse or rationale for supporting any cruel practices. I feel the pain of death and loss of life experienced by slaughtered whales is much, much, much worse than the sadness people experience when they are deprived of their tradition.

Consider, for example, the people on the Faroe islands in Denmark who slaugther dolphins and whales...because it is "tradition." The people kill the animals by hand, cutting the dorsal area through to the spinal cord with a special whaling knife, and so death is *not* instantaneous, says wikipedia.

Ironically, "as of the end of November 2008 the chief medical officers of the Faroe Islands have recommended that pilot whales no longer be considered fit for human consumption because of the levels of toxins in the whales." Yet the killing goes on: "The Faroe Island Statistical office has published the official numbers for the 2009 drive hunt. The statistics show that a total of 310 pilot whales, 174 whitebeaked dolphins, 2 bottlenose whales and 1 bottlenose dolphin were killed in three separate grinds." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling..._Faroe_Islands



That's a good question, kayleigh. Veganism means living in a way that minimizes harming other animals, and so vegans avoid any products made from animals. I think most vegans avoid wool. For example, I don't buy wool or animal skins.

Why? People kill lambs and sheep raised for wool. Also, people do hurt sheep while raising them. I have been told by a family friend who has a sheep farm in Australia that sheep farmers there rip the skin off the bottoms of lambs without using anesthetic. The reason: peeling off their skin gets rid of the wrinkles that a certain type of fly lay eggs on, and thus prevents a fly infestation on the rumps of the lambs. My family friend said that little lambs are playful before people strip the skin off their bottoms, but afterwards the lambs are no longer playful. Having your living skin peeled from your body hurts.

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FETCHER.

Sheep aren't killed everywhere for wool surely, the sheep and cows look happy and healthy where Im from, they don't kill them, they just shear them! My mate grew up on a farm and I have 7/8 within walking distance of my house.

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Sansa Stark

I'm debating on whether or not to go vegan again hmmmmmmmmmmm