Is Meat Really Murder?

VEGANGELICA · 03-26-2010, 06:26 PM

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Originally Posted by anticipation

Yawn. Unless you're saying meat is the irrefutable, singular cause for bad health then these points are mute. Everywhere we go we are bombarded with chemicals, whether in public drinking water or the very air we breathe in crowded metropolitan cities. Eating meat in moderation, and in conjunction with an active lifestyle, will not lead to any illnesses or detrimental health effects. Consuming free-range or additive-free meats are even less likely to cause adverse effects that are noticible, whether long term or immediate.

Anticipation, you asked for a reason not to eat meat, which I gave: a health reason. This does not mean there aren't *other* causes of poor health.

The health studies I listed are important because they allow interested people to learn about the impact of their food choices on their risk of cancer. Since eating 2 servings of red meat vs. 5 servings a week makes a health difference, some people would like to know this. Eating no red meat is even better, and I advise people to avoid processed meats entirely for health reasons (bacon, hot dogs, sausage, etc.). Free range meats will still contain cholesterol and saturated fats.

Certainly there are many ways in which we can improve our health besides what we eat. You didn't ask this question, however. If you had, I would have mentioned the importance of exercise. I agree with you completely that an active lifestyle is *very* important to good health and longevity. For example, studies of children have shown that exercise has a much greater impact on their bone health than how much dairy they eat.

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Industrial production of steel, fuels, and especially plastics are exponentially more harmful to the environment, are carried out on almost-as-massive scales, and occur every single day in order to create a myriad things we don't need. If you're really concerned about humanity's impact on the planet you should be attacking giants like DuPont, Exxon, and GE. I suspect that, at best, your environmental sympathies are just a side-effect of your antiquated notions of the inherent value of all life, which you believe should be cherished and protected. At worst they're just another means of convincing others to be guilty about eating animals. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I am concerned about humanity's impact on the planet, including the impact of industrial chemical pollution. Since you asked about meat-eating and not the impact of industrial waste produced during creation of non-necessities, I didn't address this issue in my answer. You are very right that there are many ways people harm the environment...and there are many ways we can help reduce harm to the environment. Reducing or eliminating the consumption of animals is one of them.

Whether my notions of the inherent value of all life are antiquated or not is a matter of opinion, but based on my observations of trends in human philosophies I would say that the notion of the inherent value of life is quite a *new* notion. The anthropocentric view of life is fairly old. Most people who eat animals, I think, view humans as the most important species on planet, which exists to serve human needs and desires, according to the anthropocentric view.

I don't want you to feel guilty for eating animals, anticipation. I want you and other people to stop eating animals and their eggs and fluids! So you stand corrected.

I know that feeling guilty about something isn't a healthy or happy emotion and I don't want to inflict that on you. I do wish, though, that rather than dismissing the information I offered you, you would consider it more carefully than I think you are doing. Public health officials have a very hard time reaching people, trying to give them up-to-date nutrition information, because people generally don't want to hear, which is too bad.

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Originally Posted by tore

From what I've read, a healthy diet generally consists of good meat, good fish and vegetables. The important thing is staying away from easy sugars, like those from bread or fizzy drinks etc. I've a huge book on my shelf dedicated to the subject written by norwegian biologist Iver Mysterud which is ripe with interesting case studies of what happens for example to aboriginal people who shift from their healthy traditional diet over to a more modern western society diets .. poor people. Those who are interested, let me know and I'll write up a reference.

Staying healthy on a purely vegetarian diet without supplements would be very hard and vegetarians have to work at staying healthy. So do meat eaters, they just don't think about it as much on average I think.

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By the way, interesting point about family size and wealth, Erica!

I agree, Tore, that diets with animals products can be healthful, yet so too can vegetarian diets. Both should be well-planned. A vegan diet without vitamin-B12 supplementation would lead to death.

Hunter-gatherers *were* much healthier than early agricultural people, who suffered from lack of variety in the diet because they ate primarily wheat (in Eurasia) with little else. However, now we know what to eat to stay healthy as a vegetarian, and I have a wide variety of foods to select among to stay very healthy. I'd get ill if I just ate potato chips and bananas. It would be vegan, but not healthful!

Avoiding simple sugars is a good idea--I agree with you. Whole-grain breads are very healthful...so I wouldn't advise people staying away from whole grain products. An aside: sometimes I do eat 5 cookies in a row. Chocolate. With vegan cream filling. Yummmmmmmmm. Then my head starts to hurt a little...so I try not to do that.

Tore, I don't find I have to work hard at all to stay healthy as a vegan. I don't plan my meals; I don't weigh anything. Actually, vegan foods have some advantages in terms of preparation and work. You can leave foods out of the frig without worrying about them spoiling quickly, which isn't the case with dairy and meats. You have fewer risks of contamination with bacteria; no worries about which cutting board you are using. And your main protein source (dried beans and grains) can be stored at room temperature for months. Simple!

Lucifer-sam, I forgot to quote what you said, but my reply is that I have never found vegetarians to be condescending or feel they are morally better than meat-eaters...at least not the ones I know. They usually seem like very thoughtful people who question what their culture has taught them. They're nice!

However, it is true that I think I would treat a pig more ethically than you would, because I think killing and eating someone who likes to live isn't kind. Sometimes I do feel anger and shock and horror at what I see meat-eaters doing and supporting. I *am* at ground zero for animal agriculture here in Iowa--I know all too well what goes on. I don't feel it is condescending to point out that people ignore animal suffering.