The Profession-al Argument
 

It might sound like I'm being a dick, but I'll say it anyways...

If you don't know what you want to do with your life, get out of school while you still can. Wasting your and your parents' money in an effort to pursue a meaningless piece of paper is hardly a credit to yourself. It's fine not knowing what you want to do with your life, it's not fine wasting an education going in the wrong direction. By my estimate some 60% of the kids in college shouldn't be where they are, mostly because they have ulterior motives in attending.

Unlike some progressive European countries, Americans do not have the luxury of attending school for as long as they can stay productive -- the last thing you want to do is tack a $40,000+ school loan on top of the expenses you'll incur as an entry-level professional. The notion that a Bachelor's degree is essential in today's world is absurd and overkill, especially considering most people pursue careers far outside their field of study.

I'm sure it's a great experience for you if you're really enjoying what you're doing now, but unless there's some sort of prospective financial reward, college becomes a superfluous and hindering 4+ years in terms of your professional development. Until tuition becomes more affordable, college will always be a recreational reservation for the upper class and an enormous financial hole for everyone else. The key is understanding whether or not that hole is worth the prospective investment towards your life.

I completely disagree with this. The notion that you have to pursue a career in the same field of study as your degree is absurd, but not the notion that you need one. You definitely need one, unless you hope to work a pay by the hour job the rest of your life. The only way I see around it is if you have massive networking skills, or you just have a friend that gets you a job (even then they will tell you to get a degree most of the time). A degree these days is little more than showing you are willing to work hard enough to get one, but it is still basically an essential.

Though I agree with you on some points -- I have to say -- education is never a waste. and today a bachelors degree is pretty darn important.

my advice would be get a degree that is useful for a career and that way you can at least be making money after graduation while you try to figure out what it is you want to do. I know there is a lot of pressure to pick the right major, but it doesn't matter that much. I think the internships you do are more important because a) you figure out a little more about what careers you do and don't like and b) you build up that resume. don't worry so much about the major -- but i'd say stick to English - its one of the most versatile majors.. but my opinion is biased 'cause I'm an English major :)


this is so poetic. and tragic.

What do you do with a BA in English?

A-fucking-men.

While I maintain that college is a great idea for those pursuing a career in the field they're studying, I agree that it's even more important to understand your career options in context with the real world and weigh that with your decision to devote time and money into something that's actually going to pay off.

I always hear about people going to school for artsy this and fartsy that, paying retarded amounts of money to do so... and ending up living in poverty because they somehow assumed that a degree is an automatic ticket to a better life, regardless of the market for their skill. While they can technically tell all their friends they have a degree in film or art or whatever else, most of the time, they're merely knowing all about what they want to know all about and it's not doing them any good.

Career planning is about long-term strategy. And it is most definitely monetary in nature. If you're not doing it for career purposes, then great... you just like doing it... but I don't want to pay your bills, nor should I. And if you don't mind working at McDonald's for your wage while you entertain this arbitrary knowledge in your head that will never get used, that's fine too. Just don't ask for my tax dollars to support your unemployment because you weren't smart enough to learn about something that actually pays.

(All "you's" in the above reply were meant generally)

I still stand by the importance of a degree. In fact, you are proving my point. The only difference is you mention that the value of liberal arts degree is generally not worth much. I do agree with that. When I mentioned the importance of a degree, that doesn't go without some forethought. Pursue a field that will actually pay off (or just accept that you will probably be a teacher). Getting a degree that doesn't attract some sort of professional attention will be basically the same as not having a degree at all. However, having a marketable degree actually will do wonders for your career prospects, as well as being the only way that can actually happen.

Or you are a networking wiz, as I mentioned earlier.

Barely anything you said makes any logical sense at all.

If you get a degree that is useful for a career, that's great... but if you're only using it as an interim job until you "figure out what you want to do", then you've successfully wasted all the time you spent on the degree for that job. Simply having "experience" isn't just work experience. It's job experience that counts towards jobs that are actually related.. not just some arbitrary factoid of having been working on "stuff" for X amount of time.

Majors do kinda matter. I guess if your parents are paying for it all, you probably don't place as much importance on it because you're not actually feeling the monetary hit... most kids I know are the same way. Those are the kids who get bad grades because they didn't have to work for the chance to even get a higher education.. I know you can change your major and internships are good for feeling out the field, but you should actually keep your major in your major career field. College isn't a 4-year-taste-test. Decide, at least generally, what you want to do for the rest of your life before you commit time and money to something you don't even have an inkling of doing.

But keeping things general at first does NOT mean to major in English. lol.. that's rather absurd.

well then what do you suggest we do? drop out and work a **** job until we decide oh **** I should have gone to college? that sounds like a waste of time to me.


also -- some people value education and don't look at it as just a means for a decent job. love for learning is a way of life. and yes I realize that doesn't require paying insane tuition costs but I think that there is a problem with the whole education system and the way we don't value education as a culture..

I'm doing something with English, so the credits won't go to waste.
Thanks though.
Exactly what I need to hear is that I'm wasting money and time.

If you're going to college "for the experience" that's fine. Just don't expect a job to compensate you well for it.

Right now the job market is shit even for technical majors, what do you think it looks like for general arts majors? I have a cousin that graduated with an amazing GPA in an English major. Right now she's working at a Starbucks from home to try and pay off her student loans until she goes back to school in the fall.

The point isn't that you shouldn't be in school, or even that you shouldn't go into liberal arts. But if you're unsure what you want to do with your life four years down the road, it's better to stay away from something that's going to end up causing you ten years' worth of headaches when you get out.

College isn't for everyone and people that make it out to be the golden highway for people who did well in high school aren't helping you at all. I'm speaking from my own perspective but there's plenty of people -- most of my friends, for example -- who have absolutely no business being anywhere near a college campus at this point in their lives.

Over here we joke that if you do a BA of Arts (Arts being humanities-based subjects) that your only options are teaching and academia.

It's pretty much true, I majored in English. I went into teaching.

I'd be interested to know why you think going out & earning money is somehow a bad thing where as staying in something that you don't really want to do that is costing you money is a good thing.

What's stopping you going back later in life and doing it when you know what you want to do and you're more financially secure?
My Brother in law wanted to do a degree on film studies, nothing to do with his career. It was just something he wanted to do for himself. He went back when he was 33 and spent 3 years doing it knowing if it fell through he had a good banking job as back up.

That doesn't sound like a waste of time to me.

I think "going back to school" is really difficult. Both my parents did it when I was a kid. And most of the non-traditional age students at my school give me the impression that it's not an easy task, especially when you already have a family. I think if you know you're going to want a BA you may as well do it while you're fresh and remember how to do the kind of work required in college courses.

Also, for a lot of kids it is because of societal and parental pressure that we go to college. For me, it was never a choice. I just always knew I was going to college.

And why I'd rather be in school then working? My best friends from high school didn't go on to college. They are waitresses in my home town now. I feel like they aren't working towards anything and that really scares me.
(That is what I mean by a waste).

Everyone has a different path in life. What works for your bro isn't necessarily going to work for me. I wonder though, after he got his degree did he do anything with it? Or go back to the bank job?

Seriously, people underrate getting an education.... mark my words, get the college degree. I work two jobs. One is an uneducated, unskilled labor type job and it sucks balls. You work your butt off, get no promotional opportunities, get paid like crap and get little if any respect.

My other job is a skilled, degree required one. You get personal priveleges and respect, a better wage more enjoyment and fullfilment and a work day that is not nearly as full of stresses and task to complete. Complete no brainer.

I agree with alot of what you're saying but you seem to be overlooking the same point that others are making over and over again.

Now, im not saying that you are working towards qualifications that are not going to be of any use to you but lets say for a moment that you are. Some people are.

Your waitress friends may not be working towards anything. They may not be working towards a career but they are working and earning money. You, on the other hand, are working towards a degree that you wont use to further your career and your chosen path has cost you thousands of pounds/dollars to achieve something that you will spend a large percentage of your adult life paying off and may need to take this kind of job or any kind of job just to help with that.

In that situation, who is really better off?

I'm going to stay with the simple idea that college isn't for everyone.
I know someone who quit college and is making money in a professional marching band, then working as a fireman afterwords.
Some people can do that.
I don't know what I want to do, and being out of college isn't going to help me towards a better idea of what I want to do.
On top of that, I have shity motivation, and college is helping me work harder, the possibilities are endless, I just have to use them to my fullest ability.
I wasn't bitching so that I could argue, I was bitching because I was afraid I wouldn't know what to do.

And on top of that, I'm eighteen, and I'm only a Freshman, it's not like I've been in college for ages.

You guys can keep arguing, but that's what I have to say.
And I plan on staying in college, because I know I'll figure out what I want to do, this won't go to a waste.

It's interesting to read these posts. In Holland EVERYONE does further education of some sort. If you're smart enough to do a degree, you DO one, most of them immediately. And for the ''lower-skilled'' there are hundreds of technical courses, teachers courses etc...

I guess the most important part is knowing who you are, what you are good at, what you are interested in, and how much money you want in life.

I love maths, for which I am lucky, I do not need a lot of money to be happy, but I might end up in a job in which I earn enough easily, so I could work part-time and still be comfortable (I know how naive I sound, but fingers crossed). Whereas I also have friends who love money, clothes and expensive gear and whatnot, but they're doing an arts degree, don't really get why. Then again, it might give them a motivation to work their freaking butts of until they are where they want to be. If they manage, good for them, I don't think they will.

Oh I am sure it's not everyone's cup of tea, but i just think if you have the ability and the willingness to do it, why not give yourself the added advantage in the job market and avoid having to work in crappy grocery stores all your life.... :)

It's a competetive market out there and you gotta give yourself some sort of edge, and for many, I guess further education is the answer...

If you have some other talent that gives you a place in the world and you're happy with where you're at in the working world, go nuts then I say... it's all about finding that sweet spot in life where you have a happiness in the workplace... much harder to find and maintain than it is to say, though, you know...

It was actually an allusion to this charming puppet play.

But yes, job possibilities can be somewhat limited for English majors. Like I said earlier, my cousin is working at a coffee shop. Her hard-earned education at work, I suppose.

I'm working on certification to teach in NY State. I plan to teach and go to grad school. What I'm working for is a life where I don't have to work the kind of ****ty job that my friends are doing now, which I've had all my life. Maybe I don't know exactly what I want to do, but at least I know what I want and am taking steps to get there.

Though, its true a lot of degrees don't have an immediate pay off. I know plenty of kids with BA's in English working ****ty jobs. And I agree that a degree with some kind of certification is much better in terms of being immediately employable after graduation. But I think its still important to remember that an education is always worthwhile.

Exactly. Unless you have a trade or happen to be a genius entrepreneur, getting a bachelors in literally anything is better than having no degree at all. With a BA you can always get office-type jobs. Over the years I've worked with tons of editors, account managers, sales people, etc. who had degrees in everything from comparative religion to animation to, yes, English. And I think the great thing about an English degree in particular is it actually gives you a bit of an edge in the business world, where good writing skills are frequently very important.

That's true of engineering majors as well, sorry to say.

How so?

I'm not saying I'm necessarily disagreeing with you but I think we may be at odds as to what each other means by it.

I'm saying, as far as I can tell based on being married to an engineer, it's an industry where if you want to switch companies, you're more than likely going to have to relocate because there don't seem to be a lot of different organizations in any given place who hire engineers. Contrast this with having an English degree. No offense to your cousin or whoever it was but most people with English degrees who have their act together wind up becoming things like editors, copywriters, proposal writers, etc. While it's true that they'll probably make less than engineers, there are generally more local jobs available to them, so they don't have pack up and move to another state if they switch employers.

Im 26 and I only have an AA degree which means next to ****. I went to a 4 year college for a semester and a half and dropped out, now I owe an insane amount of money from loans. I would suggest to anyone that is in school, to stay, why the hell not? I want to go back but I probably wont. Ill chase this dream that I have barely contributed to in months, a dream that has a 99% failure probability, probably 99.9% when you factor in my procrastination skills... Im probably going nowhere. If I had a degree I wouldnt be working in the hell that I do with no chance of promotion of any kind.

Im also getting kicked out of the place I live and dont know what im gonna do

ok done bitching

I was on tenterhooks about posting this before because it might sound like I'm trying to brag (which I'm not) but it sounds like you have a VERY wrong idea of what and where technical majors are in demand. Across a company? Yeah, you'll have to relocate, but if you're just looking for a job you won't need to look very far.

Here's a few of the engineering jobs I'm actually qualified for right now. If you notice the industries which they represent you'll see they range from communications, electronics, waste management, transportation, civil contractors, government work, etc etc etc. Not only that they're (mostly) within a few hundred miles' radius making it easy to relocate to find a job. (One is within walking distance of my apartment!) Most of these aren't small companies either, the ones which actively recruit through sites like this are generally the bigger firms.

Personally this summer I'll be working for an engineering firm that's five miles from my house. And within that area there's at least four or five more well-paying jobs within my field at my disposal. The only thing that sucks is the manufacturing industry's gone down the shitter in the past few years, making it difficult to find places looking for new hires.

I'd love to see what this would look like if I was a liberal arts major. A much shorter list, I expect.

I think it's a shame that so many people seem to think that it's either collage/university or a life spent in pointless shitty jobs.

There are plenty of other ways to further your education and if you think that all there is to it then it's you that's missing out.

That's the route I took. never been in debt , always been earning money and basically was getting paid to learn. I earn just as much money now as most people I know who went to collage/university the only difference is I didn't have a massive debt to pay off for the privilege.
Was it that I was lucky?
No I just put the effort it.

I'm not talking about within a company, I'm talking about switching companies. My wife and father-in-law are both electrical engineers so maybe that's a totally different scenario than a mechanical engineer, I don't know. What I do know is that for them, and assorted other electrical engineers my wife is acquainted with, switching companies most likely will mean you have to move.

I doubt it would be a shorter list at all, in fact I'd say it would probably be substantially longer. You've actually kind of proven my initial point here by providing list of "nearby" jobs that by-and-large would mean you would have to relocate. A person with a liberal arts degree, being much less of a niche employee, would most likely be able to find work without having to move at all.

I'm happy for you that you have what sounds like a great summer internship, but I'd definitely be very curious to hear how you feel about this topic after a decade or so actually working in the industry.

So let me get this straight: you're still under the impression that liberal arts majors have more opportunities available to them? Feel free to argue this however you like, can't say I'll ever see where you're coming from. At this point it doesn't really matter what I use to support my argument, it's obvious you have a certain p.o.v. entrenched in your personal convictions.

Although I'd like to ask, what makes you think a liberal arts major is any more qualified than anyone else as far as a non-technical profession goes? Remember, "writing skills" aren't major-specific, everybody's expected to have those.

Well, you've actually shifted the goal posts here a bit. We started off talking about English majors but then you switched to talking about liberal arts majors in general. Which would you like to talk about?

And before you jump any conclusions about what my personal convictions are, keep in mind that I too have very much of a niche degree and career path.

Who exactly do you want to compare them to? People without a degree? People with a mechanical engineering degree?

Your comment about writing skills is actually pretty funny. Employers may expect people to have them but you'd be surprised by how few people actually do. And just like you no doubt have engineering skills far beyond the typical English major, the typical English major has writing skills far beyond yours.

I like this discussion but it's so far off-topic that it's almost absurd.

New thread okay?

Sure thing.

I did shift focus a bit, my bad. I was using the English major as an example but I was applying it toward all degrees within the liberal arts spectrum.

And actually, it's funny that you mention it, but right now my career field is as expansive as mechanical engineering field itself is. Grad school is really where you orient your focus towards a specific field, but mechanical engineers are in demand in virtually every major industry.

I find your own perspective somewhat humorous on the matter. What common job would require the expansive knowledge of an English major over someone who's simply competent at writing professionally? There's a ceiling for knowledge in all careers where further pursuit simply becomes academic, I think you reach that level much quicker in an English major than an engineering one.

You're definitely right though. Communication skills ARE prized in industry, (and not just communications industries!) but I don't believe an English degree is necessary to see those promotions when writing requirements are mostly satisfied by being an able technical writer.

I gave some examples earlier: copywriter, editor, proposal writer, grant writer, journalist.

Because basically everyone is able to write I think this is a common misconception, but the fact is that being a great writer is a skill that is as difficult to obtain as any other professional skill.

No offense but I think your view on this is somewhat myopic. Look in other, non-technical areas and you'll see situations where being an able technical writer is definitely not enough. For example, in the kinds of industries I work in—such as advertising, marketing and publishing—great writers are a key part of the equation.

I think a lot of you are underrating what an education can do for you. It's a known fact that those who complete tertiary education will earn more money in their lifetime than those who do not, and will be more employable. But note that I said 'tertiary education' and not necessarily a university degree. Over here, you are much much much more employable if you have completed further study following the end of high school, and you will earn more money than someone who hasn't. I know money isn't everything but that is a true statistic.

That being said, I do agree that a lot of people go to university for the wrong reasons, for example being pressured by their parents. There are many other options for furthering your education that don't involve BA degrees or university or college, such as TAFE courses and other training programs.

I don't know how my story will apply to people at universities getting BA's in general educational fields, but it may provide a little insight into my thinking regarding education:

When I joined the Army, I specifically made it a point to join as a Network Administrator because I wanted the experience. I knew even before joining that it's not only a profitable field and rapidly expanding, but it's what I've always been good at and enjoy doing. So I racked up 6 years of military experience in the IT field and now that I'm out, the military is paying me to go to college. I get benefits for a 4 year degree at a university, but I chose to go to a technical college dealing with exactly the same field I already have 6 years of knowledge and experience in. Why? Well for one, you never really know as much as you think you know.. so the educational aspect is imperative if you want to be able to function and progress in your field, but also because just having a focused degree in the field you're making a career out of SIGNIFICANTLY improves your chances at a higher salary and hire rate, and in most cases is a prerequisite. That, along with IT certifications, is what sets one guy apart from the next when being considered for a focused IT career. And it can literally mean tens of thousands of dollars in salary differences.

So what does this mean to me?
Well, I think education is a functional resource. While it may give a lot of people the warm and fuzzies to be content just having a higher education for the sake of having it, I'd personally like to think that if you're going to invest yourself educationally, that you're going to use it to some extent and that it's going to give you an advantage at least in some aspect, otherwise it's almost wasted because it's not being used to contribute to anything productive. It's like buying a beautiful Les Paul guitar autographed by... I dunno.. Elvis. It's a great talking piece and it certainly holds a lot of pride for yourself... you look at it every time you pass it on the way to the bathroom. But you never play it and the only time you touch it is when you're wiping a layer of dust off it.
It's understandable as a showpiece, but as far as higher education is concerned, I don't think it was ever meant to be one.

You can know more than the next guy, but if you're not using the knowledge, you're not doing anything different.

A degree is a degree, it indicates you are somewhat competent to follow some kind of career path even if it isn't the one your degree was related to. I would never disregard one.

In a lot of career paths you need more than just a bachelors anyhow. Most careers require some form of tertiary education, even if it isn't at college.

I agree with Freebase and Sam to a degree and here's why:

1) I know what it's like to work and I know that experience can often times be more beneficial than someone with a degree. An employer is looking for someone who is competent enough to perform the task assigned to them and able to show up to work on time. A 22-year old fresh out of college with a BA in hand but with no actual work experience probably won't stand much of a chance getting a more basic job if they were competing with a 44-year old man who has a steady list of previously held jobs on their resume. I am very weary for some of my friends who are graduating this year and have absolutely no job experience, or really life experience outside of going to school.

I took 3 years off between graduating high school and enrolling in college because I wasn't sure what I really wanted to do yet. I also found out that I got a small inheritance and moved to the U.K. for 6 months and drink away said inheritance, but that turned out to be beneficial to me. I came back to Canada with about $200 CND and had to get a job straight away to pay my father who was charging me rent, my phone bill, and food + entertainment expenses. I then got a job working at a lumberyard for $18.90 an hour because I had two years previous experience. Not only did I get a higher starting pay, but I also was put on a forklift straight away because I had forklift experience and was a certified forklift driver. Now that is kind of a blend of experience and education because I did have to take an 8 hour class to get certified, but it was easy because I was already taught how to drive a forklift at my first lumberyard when I was 15. There were a lot of kids straight out of high school working there too because the pay was better than anything else in the area, but it was a physically demanding job and many of them quit after a week or two.

The years I spent working there helped teach me a lot about life in general, something that you won't learn in school. It taught me how to deal with co-workers who are either stupid, lazy, or *******s without getting into big yelling matches (at least all the time) as well as dealing with entitled customers. That kind of people experience just can't be learned on the same level in college. I also learned a lot of things about finding an apartment, how to balance a weekly budget to afford rent, utilities, food, etc. I also learned how to deal with landlords, how to properly inspect an apartment for previous damage so when I move out the landlord can't hold me accountable for that damage prior to my moving in. I also learned how to get up and do things even if I didn't want to, I couldn't be late to work or else I risked getting fired, yet if I'm late to class I just miss whatever the instructor was saying. Those three years taught me so much that I've been trying to pass on to friends about to leave the safety net of education that has encompassed their lives for the past 18 years or so, but I'm not sure if what I've been saying has gotten through.

In regards to people going into college without a clear idea of what they want to do, my argument has always been to go to a community college first and pay less. Cheaper classes with the same level of education that you'd get at a more renowned college or university. There are always transfer degrees which get all the core classes out of the way and give you time to decide what it is you want to do and hopefully in two years time you'll have a more clear idea of what it is you want to pursue.

Finally I'm not really sure what to think of the kids who are just going to college or university for the experience. They are usually the kids in high school that just did the bare minimum to pass the classes and are continuing that streak in college. They will just pass their classes and begrudgingly be handed a piece of paper and will then toil away the rest of their lives, content with a six pack of Bud in the fridge and pizza pockets in the freezer. Then again I know that for a lot of kids, college is that first time experience away from their overbearing parents who tried to protect them from the evils of the world so they have 18 years of fun to make up. At the same time there are lots of people who want to go to college and excel but cannot afford the experience, so the kids listed earlier can kind of **** off and die.

Ultimately though I don't know what the answer is. Yes a degree is important in this world, 30 years ago you could get by with a high school diploma but these days you need a BA just to do something that won't destroy your back or knees in 25 years time. A degree will always look good on a resume because it shows that you're capable of following orders for a set number of years, even if the degree has **** all to do with the job. A degree shows dedication and that can be just as vital as 20 years of experience to an employer. But as Freebase and Sam said, the notion that a college diploma is your golden ticket to easy street is a very misguided and frighteningly popular idea right now that will lead a lot of people to the harsh realities of life.

You come across as really condescending in this thread, and other posts I've seen you make on the topic of school/career.

Basically, here's my understanding of it: You shouldn't go to college unless you're an engineering major. You should get a job at your local Starbucks, because if you aspire to pursue a passion at a higher level, and, heaven forbid, pay to follow that path, you will ultimately wind up working at that Starbucks anyway.... like my cousin, which means everyone is like that.

Congratulations on being an engineer. You can now build stuff. I still fail to see how that makes your choices any better than, say, an Art major, if that's what they enjoy.

I still don't know what I want to do with my life, and my college career is about to come to a close. So, I guess instead of pursuing business and engineering at my university, I should have done what every other shmuck at my high school did... Go to a local JuCo for 6 years at little or no cost- taking non-academic classes like "Human Sexuality" and "Zumba Dance"- and working $10 an hour jobs like front desk attendant at Hotel 'x', or teller at Bank 'y', while living with my parents and never saving enough to have a shot at moving out.

Having seen you post before, I'm fairly certain your intent is NOT to come across that way, at all.... But, unfortunately, you are.

So there aren't jobs available right now. EVERYONE is under a crunch. When the jobs pick up, as they inevitably will, who do you think will be hired first? The person who sacrificed and succeeded in earning a bachelor's degree in these tough times, or the high school graduate with three years experience working that soft serve machine at Dairy Queen? I don't care if you were the first person to stack chocolate-vanilla swirl a foot high on a waffle cone- you aren't better off.

I'm getting the feeling that people here simply think that having a degree of any type guarantees entry into a career. Sorry to say, but you can't get a job that requires certain skills just because you spent years achieving an arbitrary degree that has absolutely nothing to do with the field, and with no experience to boot.
Getting, and being eligible for, a job that requires a specific knowledge, does not hinge on the ability of a person to sit in a classroom for 4 years. It kinda hinges on you knowing what the fuck you're talking about when it comes to your job.
College kinda provides that possibility. It's a guarantee to your employer to at least some degree and serves as a baseline for hiring in many cases. But that baseline isn't simply the presence of a "degree" that serves absolutely no functional purpose in the job.

By the way... I kinda wonder... Why would you want to major in something if you have absolutely no idea what you want to do in life? Maybe my logic is retarded, but it seems like a person might want to um... spend time, effort and money on something he/she is going to actually use.

^absolutely agreed.

what's on your piece of paper doesn't matter. the fact that you can put up with the bureaucratic BS necessary to obtain that piece of paper DOES.

on its own, i agree, a Bachelor's degree is worthless, it's a great starting point though if you've got a clear focus and are able to lay out a worthwhile path to follow.

as for the comment about sticking to an English major if you have no other plans... what is that actually worth on its own? how is it not just another 4 years of high school? it's like the guy i work with who has a degree in French and Spanish who now works in a call center and uses absolutely none of that education. i asked him once if he had a plan to do something more with his degree like maybe a Master's in Communication (international translator would be a pretty kickass career i think) or maybe a Master's in Education and be one of the highly qualified teachers on the higher end of the payscale (in Canada teachers are, or at least, used to be, paid based on their overall level of education).

YES YES YES ABSOLUTELY YES!

it's not until you decide 'oh, geez! i should have gone to college', but rather, alright enough of this cubicle hell, i'm going to do this instead. get an actual honest idea of what working for a living is like and you'll find that your interests and world views will change. plus you'll also be able to qualify as a 'mature' student. also, don't start a family if you plan on going back within the next few years. i dropped out of college the first time, went back to a lovely part time grocery store job on the ass end of nowhere before going back (twice) and decimating class after class once i had a clear focus of what i wanted to do (including 8 perfect grades during that 2nd program).

i run into so MANY people (and was one myself years ago) who act like because they have that fancy piece of paper and nice grades that they're somehow entitled to a better station in life. that's not the case at all anymore, at least not for the vast majority of people. like they'll somehow never have to change jobs once they land that first one with their degree and their genius will be recognized and they'll just be auto-promoted to a job specifically tailored just for them. those 8 hundreds i got? - padding from my dept. head to insure himself into a cushy job out of school based on our performance (it blew up in his face).

i think colleges and universities are directly responsible for this type of propaganda being accepted as common knowledge. likely why there's an obscene demand for plumbers and other people who are willing to touch actual sh1t. also i've never worked in a call center that paid less than $10 an hour and required more than a high school education, hardly knee wrecking or back breaking. sure it might suck for 8 hours a day but that still leaves 16 for yourself.


also, even though i use personal examples nothing of this discussion is meant to be taken personally by anyone. no one should drop out of school based on a freaking thread on the internet. no one is attacking anyone's choices, simply pointing out varying perspectives that most people don't notice until they're well out of the doors of Academia.

and everything Pete said is gold.