It's the same sort of logic which homophobes use. I don't understand therefore I don't agree with it. It's not your body or your life so there's nothing to agree or disagree with.

I find that to be a pretty arrogant statement at least going as far as to call her a homophobe. That is retarded.

I really don't get the deal with homosexuality, I don't understand it AT ALL but I don't get why everyone gets so worked up about it either, as long as it's doing no harm to you or anyone around you what's the issue?

But with sex changes that's different, severing your genitalia is something I consider crazy no matter what the reason is, one could oppose it for the same reason people oppose plastic surgery and thus for reasons other than sexual orientation.

Ross. :laughing:

Actually, I didn't call her a homophobe, just compared that line of thinking with one commonly present with homophobes.

Changing your body is a drastic thing to do, but it only goes to show how much these people are suffering. Same goes for plastic surgery, if it helps you feel better about yourself, why would anyone have a problem with it? Really, I don't understand. Again, this is not your body, it does not concern you, so why would you disagree with it?

I voted 'not sure' because I'm really of the 'don't know, don't care' mindset. I'm a dude, and I'm always going to be a dude. There are loads of qualities I like about being male, and qualities I envy in females, but at the end of the day, there's really nothing I can do to change that. I feel gender is something you're either content with to begin with, or have to adapt to.

Yeah well comparing someone to a homophobe just because they can't understand a certain lifestyle is jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

I mean, I don't understand neo nazi culture and if that puts my line of logic on terms with a homophobe then so be it.

Not comparing trannies to nazis but I think you understand that what I'm trying to say is hating something and simply not understanding the appeal of something shouldn't be equated with each other. Glass finds it morally wrong and I can really understand why she feels that way but that doesn't mean she feels transexuals should be denied any rights.

Like I said some people do oppose plastic surgery for various reasons.

Me? I think people have a right to do whatever they want with their bodies if it makes them feel better. But I do think people nowadays have a habit of jumping to making drastic changes based on emotional impulses and I just hope they don't regret these choices in the future.

I just don't know why it's so hard to accept why a guy would have trouble with the idea of other guys cutting their wangs off. :laughing:

I mean by doing it you're denying yourself the abillity to feel sexual pleasure ever again. Surely one day we'll have technology where doctors can actually replace your junk with a fully functional vagina complete with a synthetic nervous system and that will be a great day for trannies indeed but in the meantime there's no way to make a "true" transgender transition and I just don't think cutting your organs off is worth the effort because all that will be left is a stump where they used to be. What's the point?

The only good reasons I can think of are aesthetics and to cut off the testosterone supply. But still our technology is too limited and you can only make it half way there so why bother? Maybe if you're asexual and it won't be much of a loss to you, but the good majority of transgender people live "sexual" lifestyles. At this point in time man cannot truly become female so why not settle with having the one sexual organ you were born with instead of giving it up without getting anything back in return?

EDIT: Never mind, I've done some research and learned what a vaginoplasty is. Goddamn I have a hard time keeping up with technological breakthroughs.

I definitely agree that one improvement society needs is for workplaces and childcare to be arranged so that having a baby is easier. Your job should stay secure, and you shouldn't get penalized for taking time off (when promotions are considered). It's a lot better now than it was, but not good enough. Ideally, for example, childcare centers would be close to workplaces so that women can visit to breastfeed a child during breaks but still go to work. That's awful that you lost your job simply because of being pregnant! Firing someone for having a baby sounds illegal, too.

I agree with you that bleeding every month is a pain, literally...and I'm lucky that it doesn't hurt much for me...but I still like the emotional changes. Plus, giving birth did hurt (during contractions, but then there were painfree pauses), though actually by the time I was pushing, I was used to the pain and it didn't bother me much. I just wanted to get my baby out because I was worried about him. And the soreness afterwards! It lasted weeks! No one had told me about that. Sitting down hurt. But for me childbirth wasn't the worst pain I've experienced in life...and it was a very memorable experience, something out of the ordinary, something new. Of course, I didn't have "back labor"...which is supposed to be excruciating!

The pill...I never considered using the pill because I didn't want to mess with my hormones and cause all the bad side effects you mention.

Condoms...if some man said he wouldn't be willing to wear a condom, I'd say the possible pleasure doesn't outweigh the risks. To even things up, I'd use foam, so that we're both doing *something* to protect ourselves from pregnancy and infections. I actually never met anyone who wasn't prepared to wear a condom...all the men had them...it was never even a question. I remember being quite charmed when a significant other not only had a condom, but also contraceptive foam for me to use. I thought that was very thoughtful and sexy. It is nice when someone makes you feel safe and protected and loved, all at the same time. Sigh! :)

My point is that being your own advocate and not letting society's norms crush you, regardless of your gender, is really important.

I feel it is an extreme turnoff if a man sleeps around, because it means to me that sex is meaningless to him. It's difficult for me to imagine women (or men) wanting to have sex with someone who really doesn't care if it is you or someone else they're with.

Why not just stick to oral and anal?

That's saving yourself a lot of trouble. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...s/badteeth.gif

Ok those things also have their risks. As does every sexual act I reckon. But I'd rather have some nasty mouth sores than carry an 8 pound parasite inside me for 9 months and then squeeze it out of my genitals.

^ Not every woman doesnt want to get pregnant!

We're talking about two different things here. Not understanding (although I don't see the difficulty in understanding that other people might not think and feel as you do) and finding something morally wrong are two different things. Besides, when you say you don't understand homosexuality, I'll assume you mean you have no inclination towards same-sex attraction yourself, because I don't see what's difficult to understand about two people being attracted to each other. I've never been mystified by heterosexuality. It's there, it exists, I don't share the same feelings but I have no problem accepting their existence as a fact.

And there's a thin line between finding something morally wrong and denying someone their rights. Again, I'll use a parallel with homosexuality, the majority of people who find homosexuality morally reprehensible also feel they should limit the rights of homosexuals. If you get enough people who find a certain behavior or characteristic wrong, you'll end up with them wanting to take action. And all because some people seem unable to understand the simplest of things, that what is right for you may not apply to someone else. And, since you've drawn the nazi parallel, the deciding factor here should be whether or not it's hurting anyone. Which clearly transitioning from one gender to another is not, on the contrary.


I think it's unfortunate that the technology in this area is not advanced enough to make a full transition (including ovaries and what not), but I'd gather most transsexuals are willing to cope with the shortcomings. Syncing their minds with their bodies, at least to a certain degree, seems to be more important than feeling sexual pleasure (although as I gather M2F transgenders can still feel sexual pleasure seeing as how the procedure basically inverts the penis and preserves the nerve endings).