FETCHER.

If third hand smoke even exists then nobody can escape it at all, and we're all going to die of lung cancer induced by people smoking outside. What a load of balls, to be frank. Scientists need to waste time on something valuable.

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My Journal.
Last.Fm if your interested...

Freebase Dali

AMEN.

Since the idea that trace amounts of 3rd-hand smoke is affecting people negatively is nowhere near ultimately proven, and even if it were, I would encourage these supporters of agenda-terror to focus on other things and realize that the battle is on such a small scale that it's inconsequential in the face of all the other dangers out there... Here are some, not including being raped and killed in an alley downtown:

- Tannins occur widely in plant foods and we ingest them daily in tea, coffee, and cocoa. Tannic acid has caused liver tumors in experimental animals, and may be linked to esophageal cancer in humans.

- Safrole, which is a liver carcinogen in rats, is found in sassafras tea, cinnamin, cocoa (trace), nutmeg, and other herbs and spices.

- Black pepper was found to be carcinogenic to experimental mice. Pyperadine and alpha-Methylpyrroline are secondary amines in black pepper which can be nitrosated to N-nitrosopiperadine, a strong carcinogen.

- Aflatoxins and Ochratoxin A are natural toxins made by fungal food contaminants that also cause cancer in animals and humans.

VEGANGELICA

Third-hand smoke definitely exists...it is the stink you smell on the skin, hair, and clothes of people who smoke, and in the rooms they smoked in due to contamination of sofas, carpet, walls, etc.

The main health concern is for infants, who breathe in more dust and residues in homes since they are closer to the floor, and so are more likely than adults to be affected by third-hand smoke. Also, infants are more susceptible than adults to respiratory troubles and developmental harm caused by carcinogens and other chemicals. What is third-hand smoke? Is it hazardous?: Scientific American

The danger of a carcinogen is a function of the carcinogen's strength, exposure time, and the developmental stage of the person. I doubt most infants are given a lot of coffee, chocolate, pepper, and peanut butter, so the negative impact of third-hand smoke on infants whose parents smoke could be much greater compared to the impact of carcinogens in those foods.

On what basis do you assume that the harm of third-hand smoke is inconsequential compared to the harm of other carcinogens you list? And does the fact that an infant could be murdered mean we shouldn't care about environmental pollutants she is exposed to?

Second-hand smoke (the smoke inhaled by children as parents smoke around them) is much more of a concern than third-hand smoke, but this doesn't mean the negative effect of third-hand smoke on children or adults is negligible and should be ignored or minimized by claiming research into this topic is "agenda-terror." I find it odd that you both feel a certain topic should be off limits to scientists who are trying to understand more fully the negative impacts of smoking on people who are involuntarily exposed.

Here's a brand of cigarette to add to the list: The Candy Cigarette. Hook your customers on the habit while they're young!

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Sansa Stark

This is less likely especially in America nowadays, flavored cigarettes (besides menthol if that counts) are illegal, specifically to stop kids from smoking early because those cigarettes taste like candy. Cigarettes don't exactly taste good, unless they're clove or flavored, so bully that.

VEGANGELICA

Oh, I meant actual *candy* cigarettes (like the bubblegum ones shown), not cigarettes that have added flavoring. I didn't know real cigarettes with added flavoring even existed!

I looked up the laws about candy cigarettes and found that the U.S. still allows them. In Canada, the candy cigarette industry faces a little more legal control: the packaging on candy cigarettes can't be made to resemble real cigarette branding.

Meanwhile, selling candy cigarettes has been downright banned in several countries: Finland, Norway, the Republic of Ireland, Turkey and Saudi Arabia. I guess Tore isn't getting high off sugar cigarettes during his MusicBanter hiatus, unless he is part of some underground candy cigarette smuggling ring in Europe!

I found out that the U.S. Family Smoking and Prevention Control Act bans any form of added flavoring in tobacco cigarettes other than menthol--so that must be the law you're referring to, Paloma. My gosh, those people at cigarettes companies who added kid-enticing flavoring to cancer sticks are almost diabolical! I wish I were religious, then I could call them diabolical.

I "smoked" bubblegum cigarettes when I was a kid. I thought they were cool. They weren't very good bubblegum though. My memory of bubblegum cigarettes is that they were very hard and difficult to chew, with little taste. Maybe I had the wrong brand of candy cigarette. Maybe another candy cigarette brand would have been more flavorful.

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Freebase Dali

What are the documented negative effects of "third-hand" smoke in infants?

VEGANGELICA

I think here: http://www.musicbanter.com/920393-post120.html

Don't you feel health issues relate to smokers' favorite cigarette brands? Some smokers choose their favorite brand partly because they think the brand is safer than another. For example, apparently many smokers still think incorrectly that low-tar cigarettes are safer, and so select those brands (such as Carlton):

"Even today, many smokers think that low-tar or so-called light or ultra-light cigarettes are better for them than full-strength smokes. Because reducing tar levels also tends to lower nicotine levels, studies have shown that smokers inadvertently compensate for the loss of the nicotine. The rise of the filter cigarette was more a marketing ploy than anything else. There was little evidence to suggest that filter cigarettes were any healthier than regular cigarettes, and the tobacco companies' own researchers knew this to be the case." NOVA Online | Search for a Safe Cigarette | "Safer" Cigarettes: A History

The health effects of third-hand smoke on infants have not been studied yet, since only during the last year or so have people realized that third-hand smoke may be a significant concern. Because second-hand smoke is known to be especially harmful to children (Health Effects | Smoke-free Homes Program | US EPA), the concern is that children may also be particularly harmed by the third-hand smoke chemicals such as nicotine, which sticks to surfaces after a cigarette is extinguished and can convert into a strong carcinogen.

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Urban Hat€monger ?

Do you have a car?

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VEGANGELICA

No. The car I showed previously on MB as being in my possession was donated to a needy non-profit that transports orphans to their new families. Now I walk everywhere. With a gas mask on.

Unfortunately, I can't stop everyone else from driving, so I'm always going to be subjected to some carcinogenic second-hand car exhaust. I feel that's one good reason for not adding to the problem by smoking.

So what do you smoke? Did cigarette companies lure you into buying filtered or low-tar cigarettes? GAA! I wish your other stress release method were legal in public so you could do that instead!

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