women rights... don't just ignore this

Lizzie · 02-17-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

And that's why I don't read the bible

~~[MERIT]~~ · 02-17-2008, 04:28 PM

....That's what she said....

ProggyMan · 02-17-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

I don't? Correct me if I'm wrong but the first priority to Jews is to living a Jewish lifestyle as illustrated in the Torah. Jews view their relationship with God as the reward itself, correct? That's why you spend your lifetime adhering to the Torah and if you don't you have no relationship with God which is eternal damnation to a Jew correct? Last time I checked, and I have a Jewish friend, if you sin there's a barrier placed between you and God and you grow farther and farther that is your punishment and that is your damnation. You don't just get born into being saved, if you sin you get no closer to god. Please point out where I'm wrong here and how I don't know what I'm talking about.

That's Talmudic interpretation. Chances are that you friend's Orthodox or Conservative. I'm Reformed/Reconstructionist.

Barnard17 · 02-17-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay

The "God" that Jews believe in is the same "God" that Christians believe in. So it's not a misnomer, it's a fact. And my response came off as derisive because it was meant to, I think Hellen Keller could have told you that one.

No. You're both Abrahamic religions because you take basis in the same texts however you divert, Jews have a few added books that divert their interpretations of what Christians would term the Old Testament, Christians have the New Testament which essentially supercedes the Old Testament changing key phrases such as "eye for an eye" into "turn the other cheek", "don't eat pork" into "eat whatever, God made it all so that's cool". The God that told the Israelites to butcher, murder and rape their enemies (and then left it at that) is not the same God that changed his mind and said "it's ok, we like you regardless of your background, as long as you believe".

I could argue a sociological cause behind this divergence however I doubt you're bothered to hear it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay

If you don't believe in God, then you're not a Jew, and you have a Bar Mitzvah would be completely hypocrytical. How can you criticize Crowquill for calling your faith weak when you just admitted that it is?

He said he doesn't believe in God, therefor he's lying about being a jew, so my statement is null and void

I know plenty of atheists that have church weddings? Is that hypocritical? Well yes, but still it remains cultural. Also, it shouldn't be forgotten that there is both the religious and the "racial" Jew (for all such a label is worth ancestrally).

sleepy jack · 02-17-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProggyMan

That's Talmudic interpretation. Chances are that you friend's Orthodox or Conservative. I'm Reformed/Reconstructionist.

What are the different kinds of Jewishness and what are the differences? If that sounds douchebaggish sorry I'm curious.

ProggyMan · 02-17-2008, 04:52 PM

Judaism. Not at all.
Orthodox: Pretty obvious, literally interprets the Torah, wears funny hats and suits all the time...
Conservative: Same as Orthodox, but less extreme.
Reform: Basically just a moderate form of Judaism, with 100% room for interpretation.
Reconstructionist: Hardly Jewish at all. Formed by Mordechai Kaplan in the early 20th century, one of the central ideas is that God didn't choose the Jews, there's a joke that says reconctructionist's don't pray to God, they pray to 'whomever it may concern'. You know the story with Abraham etc. Kaplan was of the opinion that Judaism is an evolving religous organization, and needed to throw out most old ideas. A common practice in Reconstructionist synagogues is to vote on which traditions to keep.
So I wrote than in like 5 minutes so it's not exactly complete. But it gets across the basic ideas.

ProggyMan · 02-17-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fal

No. You're both Abrahamic religions because you take basis in the same texts however you divert, Jews have a few added books that divert their interpretations of what Christians would term the Old Testament, Christians have the New Testament which essentially supercedes the Old Testament changing key phrases such as "eye for an eye" into "turn the other cheek", "don't eat pork" into "eat whatever, God made it all so that's cool". The God that told the Israelites to butcher, murder and rape their enemies (and then left it at that) is not the same God that changed his mind and said "it's ok, we like you regardless of your background, as long as you believe".

Kashruut ain't in the Torah.

Barnard17 · 02-17-2008, 04:59 PM

Hmmm? Stuff that I refer to as Jewish God mostly takes relevance to the Old Testament. I won't even begin to claim to know the ins and outs of the Torah though to be frank differences just go to reaffirm the assertion that they're not the same God.

ProggyMan · 02-17-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fal

Hmmm? Stuff that I refer to as Jewish God mostly takes relevance to the Old Testament. I won't even begin to claim to know the ins and outs of the Torah though to be frank differences just go to reaffirm the assertion that they're not the same God.

Kashruut is dietary laws. You probably know it as keeping Kosher or whatever.

02-17-2008, 04:28 PM	#82 (permalink)
~~[MERIT]~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 4,814	....That's what she said....

02-17-2008, 04:52 PM	#86 (permalink)
ProggyMan Reformed Jackass Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,964	Judaism. Not at all. Orthodox: Pretty obvious, literally interprets the Torah, wears funny hats and suits all the time... Conservative: Same as Orthodox, but less extreme. Reform: Basically just a moderate form of Judaism, with 100% room for interpretation. Reconstructionist: Hardly Jewish at all. Formed by Mordechai Kaplan in the early 20th century, one of the central ideas is that God didn't choose the Jews, there's a joke that says reconctructionist's don't pray to God, they pray to 'whomever it may concern'. You know the story with Abraham etc. Kaplan was of the opinion that Judaism is an evolving religous organization, and needed to throw out most old ideas. A common practice in Reconstructionist synagogues is to vote on which traditions to keep. So I wrote than in like 5 minutes so it's not exactly complete. But it gets across the basic ideas.

02-17-2008, 04:59 PM	#88 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	Hmmm? Stuff that I refer to as Jewish God mostly takes relevance to the Old Testament. I won't even begin to claim to know the ins and outs of the Torah though to be frank differences just go to reaffirm the assertion that they're not the same God.