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View Poll Results: Do you agree with the war in Iraq?
Yes 6 13.64%
No 38 86.36%
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:00 AM   #171 (permalink)
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A Second Bush Oil Deal To Come With Murky Ties To Saudi Financiers And Osama Bin Laden
"On September 24, President George W. Bush appeared at a press conference in the White House Rose Garden to announce a crackdown on the financial networks of terrorists and those who support them. “U.S. banks that have assets of these groups or individuals must freeze their accounts,” Bush declared. “And U.S. citizens or businesses are prohibited from doing business with them.”

"But the president, who is now enjoying an astounding 92 percent approval rating, hasn’t always practiced what he is now preaching: Bush’s own businesses were once tied to financial figures in Saudi Arabia who currently support bin Laden.

"In 1979, Bush’s first business, Arbusto Energy, obtained financing from James Bath, a Houstonian and close family friend. One of many investors, Bath gave Bush $50,000 for a 5 percent stake in Arbusto. At the time, Bath was the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, head of the wealthy Saudi Arabian family and a brother (one of 17) to Osama bin Laden. It has long been suspected, but never proven, that the Arbusto money came directly from Salem bin Laden. In a statement issued shortly after the September 11 attacks, the White House vehemently denied the connection, insisting that Bath invested his own money, not Salem bin Laden’s, in Arbusto.

"In conflicting statements, Bush at first denied ever knowing Bath, then acknowledged his stake in Arbusto and that he was aware Bath represented Saudi interests. In fact, Bath has extensive ties, both to the bin Laden family and major players in the scandal-ridden Bank of Commerce and Credit International (BCCI) who have gone on to fund Osama bin Laden. BCCI defrauded depositors of $10 billion in the ’80s in what has been called the “largest bank fraud in world financial history” by former Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau. During the ’80s, BCCI also acted as a main conduit for laundering money intended for clandestine CIA activities, ranging from financial support to the Afghan mujahedin to paying intermediaries in the Iran-Contra affair.

"When Salem bin Laden died in 1988, powerful Saudi Arabian banker and BCCI principal Khalid bin Mahfouz inherited his interests in Houston. Bath ran a business for bin Mahfouz in Houston and joined a partnership with bin Mahfouz and Gaith Pharaon, BCCI’s frontman in Houston’s Main Bank.

"The Arbusto deal wasn’t the last time Bush looked to highly questionable sources to invest in his oil dealings. After several incarnations, Arbusto emerged in 1986 as Harken Energy Corporation. When Harken ran into trouble a year later, Saudi Sheik Abdullah Taha Bakhsh purchased a 17.6 percent stake in the company. Bakhsh was a business partner with Pharaon in Saudi Arabia; his banker there just happened to be bin Mahfouz.

"Though Bush told the Wall Street Journal he had “no idea” BCCI was involved in Harken’s financial dealings, the network of connections between Bush and BCCI is so extensive that the Journal concluded their investigation of the matter in 1991 by stating: “The number of BCCI-connected people who had dealings with Harken—all since George W. Bush came on board—raises the question of whether they mask an effort to cozy up to a presidential son.” Or even the president: Bath finally came under investigation by the FBI in 1992 for his Saudi business relationships, accused of funneling Saudi money through Houston in order to influence the foreign policies of the Reagan and first Bush administrations.

"Worst of all, bin Mahfouz allegedly has been financing the bin Laden terrorist network—making Bush a U.S. citizen who has done business with those who finance and support terrorists. According to USA Today, bin Mahfouz and other Saudis attempted to transfer $3 million to various bin Laden front operations in Saudi Arabia in 1999. ABC News reported the same year that Saudi officials stopped bin Mahfouz from contributing money directly to bin Laden. (Bin Mahfouz’s sister is also a wife of Osama bin Laden, a fact that former CIA Director James Woolsey revealed in 1998 Senate testimony.)

"When President Bush announced he is hot on the trail of the money used over the years to finance terrorism, he must realize that trail ultimately leads not only to Saudi Arabia, but to some of the same financiers who originally helped propel him into the oil business and later the White House. The ties between bin Laden and the White House may be much closer than he is willing to acknowledge." --Wayne Madsen, 10/22/01

Wayne Madsen, an investigative journalist based in Washington, is the author of Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa 1993-1999.
i still have a hard time ruling out the idea that this is all due to a deal gone bad. Somewhere down the line Bush Sr. screwed them over, and 9/11 may have been a retalliation because of it. both Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein were once allies and we helped fund their military. Coincidence or Conspiracy, I dont think the truth will ever come out.
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Old 08-23-2005, 04:19 PM   #172 (permalink)
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em, yeah, i DID put it in quotes and state the source so i dunno how he/she could have thought i wrote all that....
but anyway alejo you concetraded on the wrong part of the article ( again ), the most importaint bit was about iraq being turned into an islamic republic, the ( secondary ) goal of the war was supposed to be turning iraq in to a free democratic country, it becoming an islamic republic is the exact opposite of that......
No no no. It was a good article. I was just pointing out the fact that some kid thought you wrote the whole thing. I was in a rush this morning leaving for work and didn't have time to thorougly read it, etc. Don't be too quick to jump on me.

And once again, while the article is mostly speculation, I do believe that some officials are realizing the harder it will be to make it a democratic country because the people aren't use to a democracy and don't understand/neccasarily(sp?) want one.
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Old 08-23-2005, 04:21 PM   #173 (permalink)
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I will say however, that our country is NOT worth dieing for....I support the troops only because we are human, and human compassion transends everythng.....I don't support WAR and the ACT of WAR. Kill or be killed as someone said......it's stupid to me.
How ironic. You say that yet live in a country (one many consider the best in the world, maybe not politically but in many other aspects) where it was created because certain Patriots thought they were being treated unfairly and thus decided to fight and die for their country.

Truly ironic.
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Old 08-23-2005, 04:23 PM   #174 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fenixpunk
i still have a hard time ruling out the idea that this is all due to a deal gone bad. Somewhere down the line Bush Sr. screwed them over, and 9/11 may have been a retalliation because of it. both Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein were once allies and we helped fund their military. Coincidence or Conspiracy, I dont think the truth will ever come out.
I think they were friends because of the conflicts in Iran and because of the US's dependency on oil, thus making it neccesary for us to have friends in the middle east. But the article was interesting. You gotta remember Clinton was in Iraq during much of his Presidency as well though. Hell, he could have taken Hussein out if he wasn't a pussy.
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Old 08-23-2005, 05:14 PM   #175 (permalink)
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No no no. It was a good article. I was just pointing out the fact that some kid thought you wrote the whole thing. I was in a rush this morning leaving for work and didn't have time to thorougly read it, etc. Don't be too quick to jump on me.

And once again, while the article is mostly speculation, I do believe that some officials are realizing the harder it will be to make it a democratic country because the people aren't use to a democracy and don't understand/neccasarily(sp?) want one.
and i was pointing out that you were right to point that out.but nevermind that. after all the stuff i've put out before you ( and which you probobly already knew ) i just don't understand how an intelligent person like you can be a supporter of the war. for me, it has no justification. you've said somewhere that you have some friends that are in iraq, could that be a major reason?

and fenix, that article reminds me of moore's fareinheit 9/11 and one of the rare parts of it that i didn't like, where he stretches the connection between bush and bin laden. i don't think the war had/has anything to do with his buisness ties to saudi arabia, more with him being trigger happy after 9/11.....
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Old 08-23-2005, 05:18 PM   #176 (permalink)
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and fenix, that article reminds me of moore's fareinheit 9/11 and one of the rare parts of it that i didn't like, where he stretches the connection between bush and bin laden. i don't think the war had/has anything to do with his buisness ties to saudi arabia, more with him being trigger happy after 9/11.....
bush - trigger happy, ya, i agree...

but what caused bin laden to attack the US on 9/11 in the first place?? thats the part that nobody seems to be sure of, thats where i think foul play by bush sr. comes to mind.
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:28 PM   #177 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=adidasss]and i was pointing out that you were right to point that out.but nevermind that. after all the stuff i've put out before you ( and which you probobly already knew ) i just don't understand how an intelligent person like you can be a supporter of the war. for me, it has no justification. you've said somewhere that you have some friends that are in iraq, could that be a major reason? [QUOTE]

I think Hussein is a horrid enough person where any war that would take him out and HOPEFULLY hold him responsible for all that he has done wrong is a good war. Simply going to war to take him out was good enough for me.
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Old 08-24-2005, 10:11 AM   #178 (permalink)
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^^wasnt that what the first war was about? getting hussein? the military had the opportunity and didnt take it..now this SECOND war was originally about finding Bin Laden, hes still running around and we end up going back to war with Hussein for producing weapons of mass destruction...although i dont recall any ever being found. Husseins own family gave away his hiding place..why hasnt anyone given away bin ladens hiding spots? 1,000,000 reward would go a long way in one of those countries. I guess we will have to wait for a 3rd war where we go and fight mutant camelmen before we decide to finally do something about bin laden.
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Old 08-24-2005, 10:54 AM   #179 (permalink)
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^^wasnt that what the first war was about? getting hussein? the military had the opportunity and didnt take it..now this SECOND war was originally about finding Bin Laden, hes still running around and we end up going back to war with Hussein for producing weapons of mass destruction...although i dont recall any ever being found. Husseins own family gave away his hiding place..why hasnt anyone given away bin ladens hiding spots? 1,000,000 reward would go a long way in one of those countries. I guess we will have to wait for a 3rd war where we go and fight mutant camelmen before we decide to finally do something about bin laden.
I still say we put a 50,000,000 bounty on his head and he' on our doorstep within 24 hours. There's a lot of loyalty over there, but I don't think that would stop them if the money was right. Of course, that's like funding terrorism since you know some anti-american group would likely get the money, so I'm still not sure how I feel about that.
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Old 08-24-2005, 11:21 AM   #180 (permalink)
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ya, i can see that happening, tear one organization down and end up funding another.
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