hip hop bunny hop

Eh?

The studies you posted really do state what one would expect. The obese are more likely to be depressed? I'd fully expect as much. Even if we leave out the obvious social stigma associated with obesity, there are serious medical problems that can be caused or made worse by obesity - back pain, joint pain, impotence/e.d., decreased metabolism, complications arising from diabetes, increased risk for items such as ovarian cysts, etc.

The second study is more interesting. What is important to note is that this was simply a diet approach, and that it was both a caloric reduction and a dramatic reduction in fat intake as well, as: "a major component of human dieting is a decrease in fat content and diet palatability."

Hmm. Anyways, my thoughts: (1) becoming obese requires a significant amount of time and devotion, meaning obesity is a lifestyle. Most any change from this lifestyle will be stressful. (2) Relying on diet alone will be more stressful than doing both diet & exercise.

(EDIT) So, really, the method remains the same. Burn more calories than you consume, and weight loss is the result. Likely, the longer someone has been obese the more difficult this will be, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that after a certain point it becomes dramatically more difficult. Still, I don't see how "burn more calories than you consume" can be considered anything other than sound advice as it's the only real method to weight loss.

...even though you previously stated, to me:

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Euronomus

Just read most of this thread and thought that I would add my 2 cents.
First the line of attractiveness lies between thick and lumpy, when areas that should be smooth start to fold over themselves that's when women start to lose attractiveness in my eyes.

Secondly Bmi is a useless number and really should be abandoned completely
according to my Bmi I'm obese but according to a water displacement test my body fat is well within the normal healthy range.( I'm 6'1 and weigh 300lbs but I have extremely wide shoulders and ride my bike everywhere so my legs are quite large but all muscle)

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Astronomer

Just to flip the coin, being big isn't the size issue all the time. Skinny gals cop it too. Like this controversial picture:



Which just tells naturally slim girls that they aren't attractive.

How about accepting the fact that everyone is different, individual, etc, blah blah blah? Fat girls get hated on and skinny girls get hated on too... it's pretty fucked. People should just get over it.

Arya Stark

Word.
And where have you been?
Hay gurl

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Rubato

The study also states that people suffering from depression are also more likely to become obese, my point was that it's doubtful that everyone willfully chooses to become obese if underlying psychological problems can have such an effect on someones weight gain.

Sure, if one so chooses to stop being a drug addict they should stop taking drugs, if someone finds themselves faced with unemployment they should go out and get a job and if you have weight problems you should burn off more calories than you take in, these only answer the questions but fail to look at the problems. If someones unhealthy eating habits are [at least partially] caused by depression, how effective would the advice "burn more calories than you consume" be without doing anything to tackle their problems with depression?

Dr_Rez

The Lateralus.. She Lives!

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Freebase Dali

I'm sorry if I'm late to this particular party, but I was browsing this thread and saw this post, and I wanted to try and understand your thinking behind it.
I apologize in advance if I misunderstand what you were trying to say.

I live here in a capitalist country (USA), and I support myself and have been doing so for years. Out of my own personal experience, I've noticed that healthy food like vegetables, non-processed, non-packaged foods, ingredients, etc. are not out of my reach as someone who has always been technically below the poverty line (and still currently as a student). In fact, I can provide for myself FAR BETTER by eating home-cooked, healthy meals that stretch FAR longer than a Burger-King value meal at almost the same price when broken down into ratios.
In fact, if I were to go to the grocery and strictly choose processed, packaged meals instead of individual ingredients that allow me to control content and output, I would pay around 2 or 3 times as much as I would otherwise.
How do I know this? Because I've been on both sides of that fence, and with some education and experience, I learned that there's a better way to live than relying on meals in a box, fast food, and all the other crap people shove into their faces in this country because it's just more "convenient" to do so. And guess what, I still income below the poverty line, and I'm a full time student, and I have money to pay the bills, emergency funds, and more money to play with.

So, in my experience, I've learned that the problem isn't what's available and not available. The problem is laziness. The problem is not being educated about how to get the most out of your money and buy healthy food, and how to make it last so that you're not purchasing meals based on whims and convenience.
America's problem isn't capitalism in that regard. It's Americans that are simply too lazy, uncaring and uneducated to actually do something good for themselves because it requires work and it requires a degree of self-control.

Believe me... Us lower-tier Americans can afford good food. I don't have Food stamps, and I don't collect unemployment. I don't have any sort of welfare. All I receive is an earned housing allowance from my GI bill while I go to school, and an additional pell grant per semester. WELFARE RECIPIENTS INCOME MORE THAN I DO. And somehow, I can buy healthy food and live right... (save for my drinking, of course) With plenty money to spare!
I'm guessing you're beginning to see the picture here.
It's about personal choices.
The only situation where personal choice is no longer an option for this is in a situation where a government is dictating what you're allowed to eat.
Yea, maybe that's the only way to get some of these people to straighten their lives out, but personally, I'd rather not be forced to live in a world where my decisions are made for me simply because of the inability of others to make them on their own.

Astronomer

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Guybrush

I think you are misinterpreting a bit. First off, I've already made the point about personal responsibility and am not solely blaming society for obesity. I simply wanted to highlight the distinction of when I think we should be talking about personal responsibility and when we can blame society. The fact is market forces in today's capitalist society (whichever one it is) will come up with ways to get you to eat unhealthy food. Perhaps they put growth hormones in beef to make cattle grow quicker and maximize profits and these hormones, when consumed by people, contribute slightly to an overall increase in obesity. Perhaps a burger chain will get the cheapest meat from poor countries so that they can reduce the price of a burger, making the choice to pick one up a little simpler and so contribute to obesity in another small way, even if it's by appealing to peoples' laziness (it's so cheap and easy to just get a burger vs. making one from scratch).

There are market forces promoting healthy living too, but most businesses will probably try to maximize profits and so if that means f.ex using those hormones in beef production, then most probably won't choose not to. Either way, there are market forces out there actively trying to make you do bad lifestyle decisions.

So my point was there are many things in society that promotes obesity, whatever they are, and so when addressing obesity as an epidemic or when you're complaining about chubbys living off your taxes, then you can blame society (and not put blame on any one singled out obese person).


A side note about classes, I think someone else here had a source saying that classes are differentiated also in diet and I just assume that's true to some degree in most "classy" societies.

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hip hop bunny hop

Hyperbolic Rubato is hyperbolic, but I do agree with the fundamental point of your post. (edit) Which seems to be, people with legitimate, actually existing medical problems should seek treatment of those problems.

Sorry, you're claiming BMI is useless because it's not accurate for a minority of the population?

Anyways... this next bit is not really vital to the thread, but I have to call bull****: 300lbs, at 6'1", and you're not overweight? Really? You'd have to be sporting Arnold Schwarzenegger, in competition, levels of muscle.

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