1. I never noticed any stigma. My friends and most males I know talk about their porn viewing and or masturbation habits pretty openly. At least when you are not a teen.

2. But what people fail to realize is that for a man to do so IS quite a feat and something he has accomplished in a (possibly twisted) way. Even a below average woman could fine a line of dudes to bang her every night...I have seen it in many of my workplaces. All she has to say is yes, while the man has to essentially convince each woman of the idea. Not only that but the man wont be left with a human growing inside. Is this fair...**** no but it is the wayit is.

1. i was thinkin more along the lines of: young women, not very sexually active, masturbating at home instead of screwin guys. VS men not gettin with girls, sittin at home beatin off. one is deemed a lot more pathetic than the other would u agree. theres commercials on tv reglarly for trojan vibrators, how pathetic do ppl consider guys with fleshlights vs girls with toys??? point being replacin sex with masturbation is more acceptable for chicks


2 i agree with u. im tryin to explain to ninetales why women have that leverage. part of that is cause women dont have a reason to seek out sex beyond physical pleasure as much as men. they gain no social status from it, in fact theirs sometimes decreases (slut vs pimp argument)

haha fo sho. A guy sittin at home wackin it all day is a loser and a female is a princess.

Who's egos are fragile? Women's? How would that allow them to get away with manipulating via sex?

So they can replace masturbating with sex with less stigma. Why can they get away from it though? Sex involves two people bro

Not the women's problem. Men shouldnt be so stupid then, no?

But then the opposite is also true. A women's social status is determined mainly by men. This is especially true if you adhere to your next bullet point.

This just kind of sounds like someone who can't even conceive the notion of a relationship. And even if this were true it makes men seem stupid again. ER SEX DURR.

Yes, women are sex tools and men just use them. That's all folks.

both sexes. egos are more fragile and important durin that time of high school and college i think



i cant explain all of societys collective reasoning or why certain things are the way they are. do u disagree?? did u read what i just wrote to rezz?


i dunno that i explicitly stated its completely womens fault. guys are the ones often chasin women, not the other way around lol. if a guy has slept with a bunch of hott chicks, his status is elevated towards women. 2 main reasons. first like ive said, other women can assume he has good qualities which make him more attractive. second if a guy has slept with jenny who is a knockout 10 dimepiece and is high on the local social ladder then any girl who is gettin wit that guy can think of herself on that same level. for women tho, its kinda the opposite. their status doesnt improve with sleepin with a bunch of guys no matter how good lookin. it decreases


somewhat. women are more catty with each other at this age tho and more jealous of ppl of the same sex.

Thiu honestly dont think women from teens to early 20s use sex as the best way to get attention? cause i do lol and i dunno what that has to do with relationships

again you really dont think that happens?? there are teenage and early 20s butthurt friendzoned babies and white knights in hoards everywhere. and i find those ppl to be pathetic so dont get it twisted thinkin im sittin here goin wahhhhh call the whambulance for the oppressed men of the world. thats like what a feminist would do and u know my contempt for ppl like that

It's not so much an issue of men being stupid as single-minded. Evolution teaches us that our main objective is to procreate with as many females as possible. We can impregnate about as many women as we can get access to, so it doesn't matter so much about choosing, so we're not really concerned as much with the quality of their personality. Especially when we're young and dumb (all people being dumb when they're young.)

Whereas women can only get pregnant once at a time and not until nine months afterward, so they must choose their partners far more carefully which means testing them. By looks, physical prowess, personality (weakness isn't just physical after all), ability to provide and protect, etc. Which naturally gives them the power in sex because they're choosing while we're just pursuing.

Ok yeah I agree with this.


Ah I think I see what you mean now. Guys dont want to look lame by just masturbating; girls can do either without looking as lame.


No, you just didnt explicitly state that it wasnt either.

I think there's a lot more stigma attached to female masturbation than male, for instance males generally feel comfortable talking freely among friends about porn/masturbation whereas with women you don't really get that. I have friends that deny they've ever masturbated and don't use toys etc when I really think they're lying. I could believe the part about toys but no masturbation, that's plain ridiculous to say you've never once even tried it. Especially if you have been used to receiving regular sex. Cos I generally find the more sex I get the more that I want.

lol this is true. I wind my friend up about this, 'I know 99% of women do it but I'm seriously one of the ones who doesn't.' :D

She has admitted using the shower head on herself though.

I think 216's point was that women can just get by with masturbation without having the same stigma as men. Men are expected to "get pussy" or they are considered less of a man for it. Seriously, if you're a guy who isn't having sex and you're in a group of guys who are then you're almost seen as a nonentity. Almost like a cripple actually. Not in an explicit way necessarily, but it's more subtext. You're just not on the same level as the guys having sex.