Protip - There's no such thing as the friend zone. They're just bad at communicating that they're not into you, and you're not good at picking up that they're not.

Key takehome point - Sometimes someone likes you and isn't into you despite thinking you're attractive and nice. I have a female friend. Alternative model, thin, attractive, could have had a thing a long time ago but didn't get to that point.

In retrospect I:

1 - Still think she's pretty
2 - Still think she's a great friend
3 - Recognise that I am totally, totally the wrong type of dude for her to be with romantically. Everything I offer to her life socially is in terms of stability and support that wouldn't happen if the expectations of a romantic relationship were added into the equation. If we'd gotten together, the first arguments would have been the last arguments.

And that's fine. Sometimes someone isn't being a dick if they're not after your crotch vegetables. And sometimes people are better together if the between-the-legs-mambo isn't on either person's mind.

Well you're also an adult. Friendzoning is thankfully reserved largely for middle and high school.

That's not friendzoning, that's awkward teens making up bizarre, asinine reasons why they can't have what they want, and being unable to reconcile that with reality.

It's the same mentality that makes guys think that if they're just buff enough, tall enough, "stylish" enough, they can have any girl they want. In reality, people just don't work that way - You can't please everybody, any of the time. Expecting to have a shot with every girl you talk to, just because you want to have a shot, isn't going to be a realistic expectation.

At its worst, it sets up this downward spiral, where someone not being into you is a huge, personal, judgemental attack. It's that kind of warped logic that leads to pickup artists and MRAs who seem to think that women are either illogical animals, or conniving witches, with the only acceptable women being subservient, docile, placid arm jewellery that don't form their own opinions on things.

Those people are scum, and it's a big deal to be mentally well balanced around that sort of thing.

For example, I watch anime and play videogames. For a lot of people, that's a dealbreaker for a relationship. But the fact is, I don't let those things control my life and/or turn me into a person I'm not proud of being, and if someone blindly assumes that without taking me for who I am, then that's their problem and doesn't reflect on me. I am no worse a person whatsoever for not being who that person thinks I am or should be.

At the end of the day, trying to please everyone will only make you unhappy. But you can please some people most of the time and that's doing pretty well socially in my book, at any age.

Im sorry crotch vegtables?! WTF!?....

Yeah, they're clearly crotch legumes.

Never heard of a gentleman's meat and two veg?

There's also:

John Thomas
Willy
One Eyed Trouser Snake
Leviathan
Crotch Vegetables
Leader of the Opposition
Bandmaster of the Wild Mambo Duet
Lightning Rod
Roddy Piper
Rowdy Roddy Piper
The Big Show
Iron Man
Man Of Steel
Prick
Todger


and many more

No, it's generally passive guys who latch onto a girl they can't have for whatever reason just so they don't have to pursue actual romantic relationships. Assuming they're gonna end up being sad, creepy, misogynist, pick-up artist types is silly. They may just be nerds.

You need to be more aware of the context, man.

The kind of people MRAs and PUA scum appeal to, is exactly that kind of person.

I have friends who read "The Game" and genuinely believed what it told them until they got some context and started thinking more critically about the kind of person they wanted to be for themselves, rather than the kind of person they assumed other people wanted them to be.

Nerds and the insecure are exactly the kind of people that can be split by that sort of divide. It's really hard, as someone who's always struggled socially, to get to the stage you can genuinely dismiss other people's opinions of you and become a person you respect. A lot of people who end up PUAs and MRAs are that way because they're finding a really extreme form of self-worth somewhere within it.

What they do works because they take a shotgun approach until someone responds to them. What they think they're doing is forcing women to confront a bold, take-no-prisoners masculine idol that's found a way out of the AFC traps of caring about the other person whatsoever.

They're not even polygamists or bigamists - they're more like serial monogamists. Getting the girl and getting that rush of self-assertion from it over and over again is all that keeps them going. They don't stick around for it to fall apart once their lie unravels, so they avoid the fallout of anyone confronting them on their behaviour.

I'm aware that the nerd community is unfortunately susceptible to douchebaggery and prejudices, but I don't see why it's worth comparing friendzoning to men's rights douchebags. Would you compare feminists to misandrists just because a minority of feminists are KKK-like dickbags?

I'm not comparing the two though. I'm saying that the weakness of one is preyed upon by the other. Nerds are the target market for MRAs and PUAs because they typically encounter social difficulties that those groups can manipulate to their own benefit.

I could make comments about misandry and feminism too but that doesn't mean they're the same thing, or that one supports the other because that's simply not true.. But its hardly a stretch to say that a misandrist is more likely to peddle that agenda through feminist channels than neutral or patriarchal ones.

*and we wonder why there's not more sex around here...... *

Because since Sansa got banned and took her particularly insane, warmongering brand of feminism mostly with her, there's been a commensurate backlash against that line of thinking, which is why there are a lot more tits in avatars these days, and why conversations seem to have taken a decidedly bro-culture tone when it comes to women, so the idea of being moderate and tryingnto treat people like people instead of frigid hellwitches or revenous succubi is being trampled underfoot by the desire to say all the things that couldn't be said before?

People are *******s. All people. It's irrational to think that we should be able to criticize the entire human race and individual humans, but treat specific groups of people as if they're "beautiful and unique snowflakes". Women are *******s in their own special way. Men are *******s in their own special way. Black people are *******s in their own special way. White people are *******s in their own special way. Gays are *******s in their own special way. Straight people are *******s in their own special way. Muslims are *******s in their own special way. Christians are *******s in their own special way. Buddhists are *******s in their own special way.

Sorry, but if you expect me to say life affirming things about specific groups of people for the sake of sounding like I'm not also an *******, then I'm going to disappoint you. Because I'm an *******.

When I said treat people like people, I wasn't saying we should treat them all like good people. I was saying that rather than rallying against a dead witch and swinging entirely in the other direction, we should stop and consider whether going too far in either way is a bad idea.

Protip - It is.

I don't know about the rest of these reprobates, but I don't really think I've been swinging too far in any direction.

Weird thing about the human condition is that everyone thinks they're a moderate. Nowhere is that more true than when discussing civil liberty and equality. People have surprisingly little perception of the real boundaries of the discussion and get stuck in their own lines in the sand.

I've done it too. I've sat at a desk discussing the female/male pay gap before and considered myself moderate while arguing for what I now recognise is the wrong side. I couldn't have been more wrong, but it took a lot of challenges to that mindset before I started realizing my attitude towards feminism wasn't as moderate and rational as I'd originally thought. And that's an experience a lot of people never get through in life, because of confirmation bias

more sex!

I assume you're speaking in general since the only thing we've really been discussing is the existence of the friendzone. Unless you have particular instances you're thinking about. I don't pretend to be much of anything when it comes to feminism. I agree with much of it, but in general I just don't think about it enough to really know where I stand on the misogyny scale. I like to think I'm female friendly, but I'm not arrogant enough to pretend to be enlightened.

I just don't think the atmosphere of the site has become antagonistic towards women. Most of the people on here are still fuzzy wuzzy liberals who hold many of the same views as Sansa, if not the invective.

I'd disagree on that. I mean, nobody should really at this point be denying that Dirty is a misogynist, on top of being freaky psychotic and a bunch of other not-so-great things.

But every. single. ****ing. time. he comes back under a new pseudonym, the same thing happens.

1 - New member shows up who talks like Dirty
2 - A bunch of arguments over whether it's Dirty or not
3 - Arguments subside, period of posting where Dirty makes it his business to go into sansa-esque threads and be bigoted and dumb
4 - A ton of people see this and argue over whether he's an ******* or not
5 - Invariably, a majority of people say something along the lines of "He can be a bit dickish but I like the guy"

6 - Several months of this later the mods finally have enough and ban him, then he goes ape**** and spams the forum with new accounts after admitting he was dirty all along.


The thing that concerns me is that so many people here are so, SO ready to just assume a guy with those opinions is a normal regular guy they should/could be friends with.

That doesn't tell me this is a forum of lefties. It tells me this is a forum of mild-to-moderate misogynists and a few borderline SJWs keeping that in check.

WTF?

More sex.

(you got "major" issues GB)

OK, you're using too many acronyms GB. What's an SJW? And while we're at it, MRA??

SJW = Social Justice Warrior.

The kind of person who in times past would have chided you for not thinking of starving kids in africa, except turned up past 11 to about 50 and concerned only, ONLY with obsessively pursuing greater equality for minority groups - to the point of going way too far and occasionally just flat out making up new minority groups they can claim are persecuted, like Otherkin and "Soulbonders".



MRA = Mens Rights Activist

Basically a one-issue opposite to an SJW - this guy is convinced that Men's freedoms are under threat from some misandrist menace. Look up the FB group "Exposing Feminism" for a perfect example of their tinfoil hattery

Ah. I am indebted to you, sir. :beer:

Sigh

If you're that desperate, go **** yourself.

Easy bubba.

I think most people accepted that he was an *******, but were amused enough to let it pass. And we also were aware that he was a misogynist, but overlooked it for the same reason. I may have backed up an argument or two of his, cause even a broken clock is right twice a day, but I always made sure to distance myself from his viewpoint as a whole.

I liked him (keyword "liked", cause when I learned he was Dirty, "amusing troll" became "creepy psychotic"), largely for the same reason I like hip hop bunny hop: I abhor many of his views, but since it's the internet and I don't have to be in the same room with him, I can compartmentalize my negative and positive opinions of him, allowing me to tolerate him when he isn't in racist (HHBH)/misogynist (Dirty) mode.

I just don't feel the need to reject somebody on the internet the same way I would in real life, anymore than I feel the need to maintain some kind of "positive" atmosphere on a forum. So long as the forum is interesting, I don't need it to reflect my preferred world view 24/7.

I don't mind people being around who I disagree with on a trivial matter, or a significant matter that's complex enough it's possible for us to both have a well thought out viewpoint. I have a big issue with people being around who I can't possibly approve of their thinking.

Than the internet is not for you.

HHBH is at least genuinely intelligent, so even if I find his conclusions dubious, I can at least respect his ability to form opinions. But Dirty is clearly a moron with only moments of clarity. I just didn't really care if his thought processes were up to snuff, as his value to me as a poster had nothing to do with his intelligence.

So... Did you guys like go on a terrible date with him or something?

:laughing:

Man, this thread is the worst date ever.

I worked at a grocery store in Rhode Island as their cart guy once. My entire job consisted of gathering shopping carts from the parking lot, and I had to wear one of those neon safety vests.

Anyway, since I was relegated strictly to the parking lot, I didn't get to associate with most of the people who worked inside the store that much. The only person I'd really get to talk to much would be whoever they had as a greeter, plus there was an armed security guard and a police officer that stood at the door who I would talk to sometimes (the store was in the projects).

So I became pretty good friends with one of the greeters who worked there. She was in her young 20's or so and she had a kid, and she was generally a nice and decent person so I was nice to her. But she wasn't physically attractive to me at all and so I had no romantic interest in her. She came on to me awkwardly a number of times and when she demanded a reason why I didn't want to date her but was still nice to her I would say the kind of stuff women usually reject men with. Stuff like "I just don't see you in that way" and "I'm not into you like that."

Basically trying my best not to be insulting while making it clear I'm not interested. Because there was really no polite way to tell her directly why I wouldn't date her. I won't even go into detail on it here. But she kept acting confused again and again as if I were somehow leading her on by continuing to be nice to her while not wanting to get sexual. She basically left me no options besides continuing to be nice to her while not ****ing her which is leading her on, or tell her that she's not attractive which there's just no nice way to put to someone.

So I agree with you that the friend zone thing is bs made up by guys that can't take a hint.

A girl I was after found out that I wasn't religious to anything but my music on a date once. Didn't talk to me once after she found out and I never heard back from her. It's alright, she thought she was a freak in bed but she was actually pretty vanilla in the bedsheets.

My one and only blind date........

I get a call from my friend we'll call him Craig.
Craig tells me that we're not meeting in the pub that night after all we're going to this French Bistro instead, then he tells me to make an effort with my appearence. I think nothing of the change of venue as we regularly go there to meet up en mass on special occasions, I just assume someone we know is back on the island or it's someone's birthday.
The clothing comment does puzzle me though.

I get to the bistro, Craig tells me the reason we are there is because his girlfriend, we'll call her Mandy wants to set me up on a blind date with one of her friends (we'll call her Doris) because Doris saw a picture of me with Craig at Craig & Mandy's place and liked me. He tells me it's nothing to do with him and I tell him I'll go along with him so he can get extra brownie points with his girlfriend. He also tells me it's Doris's birthday.

Mandy arrives with a 300lbs goth girl called Doris. I act nice and say hello and buy everybody a round of drinks. We sit down at the table, Doris spends the next half an hour talking to Mandy about the guy who nailed her the week before and makes no attempt to talk to me at all. All through this Craig is doing his best to hide his laughs from Mandy, I just sit there and down as much beer as I can.

An hour later Doris and Mandy finally finishes their conversation with each other and notice myself and Craig. We hit another bar, I'm left alone with Doris. I try to have a conversation with her, she answers with one or two word answers and asks me nothing, the most interesting things I can establish about her is that she enjoys soap operas and getting drunk. Thankfully after about 5 minutes of this torture Craig & Mandy show up with more beer and Doris and Mandy go back to their conversation.

We hit another bar, this time as soon as we walk in myself and Craig see some friends and we go over to talk to them leaving the girls by themselves. Later at the bar when I'm getting a refill Mandy comes over to me and asks me if I'm going to talk to my date, I just laugh at her.

I go to the downstairs bar while Craig meets some other friends I don't know that well and I see my sister sitting at a table with about 8 of her friends, a few months earlier I spent a week with my sister and 4 of her of her friends when we all went away to a friends wedding and spent most of that week getting drunk. This was the first time I had seen them since so they invite me to join them. One of my sisters friends, we'll call her Andrea, didn't go with us on that week, she's also not seen me for a few months.

Did I mention that every time I see Andrea she flirts with me ... heavily?
No?
Well she does.
I sit down with my sisters friends, Andrea comes over sits on my lap and starts whispering in my ear.
Mandy & Doris walk by to go to the toilets, Doris sees me sitting at a table with 9 girls with one in my lap looking like she's about to stick her tongue down my throat. She turns away in disgust, Mandy looks at me like she wants to kill me.
I spend a bit more time with my sister then I go rejoin Craig.

About an hour later Mandy & Doris turn up again to leave.
Outside Craig asks if anyone is going clubbing, Doris says no looking annoyed and walks off without saying goodbye to anyone, Mandy follows her looking really pissed off with us both. I tell him he's in shit tomorrow, he says he knows.

We then go to a nightclub and just laugh about the whole thing.

Andrea sounds great.

She is

Apart from being a serial cheater, but as I never dated her it was never an issue.

Not as long as I'm alive it's not.

Not as long as Paul is kicking.His treat.;)