Your Day

**Frownland** · 01-26-2018, 03:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Good is good.

From what I gather, your standards for what's good and what isn't all comes down to how something is marketed. It doesn't really upset me anymore since I know that it's just who you are.

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We also know that you dislike anything that's popular. It's your only edge.

I like a lot of popular things (f. ex. Led Zeppelin), just not all of them and I'm willing to humour that anything might not be perfect.

Trollheart · 01-26-2018, 03:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Chula Vista

You are beyond hopeless. Go put a bullet into your brain.

SPNL

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Originally Posted by The Batlord

I don't know what movie you're talking about so I can't say, but in general those movies, even the anti-war ones, often carry water for soldiers so that anti-war messages become pro-veteran messages, which encourage you to "support the troops", which puts it into your brain that you should support their wars as well. Not all war movies are like that obviously, and generally the ones that aren't are the more controversial, but in general if a war movie has a battle scene that can be described as "cool" then you should probably be leery of its intentions, even if the intended intentions aren't jingoistic.

I'm talking about Born on the Fourth of July. Have you seen it? None of the second part of the movie backs up what you're saying at all. It's total anti-war to the max, even going so far as to turn a gung-ho soldier into a protester against the war he fought in. AND it's based on a true story.

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Originally Posted by grindy

That's some gratuitous abbreviating.

I will make that ubiquitous all over the internet before I die next Thursday.
#SPNL

**Frownland** · 01-26-2018, 03:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Trollheart

I'm talking about Born on the Fourth of July. Have you seen it? None of the second part of the movie backs up what you're saying at all. It's total anti-war to the max, even going so far as to turn a gung-ho soldier into a protester against the war he fought in. AND it's based on a true story.

I tried watching that but choked on the fistfuls of ham that Oliver Stone was trying to cram down my throat.

OccultHawk · 01-26-2018, 04:20 PM

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I'm talking about Born on the Fourth of July. Have you seen it? None of the second part of the movie backs up what you're saying at all. It's total anti-war to the max, even going so far as to turn a gung-ho soldier into a protester against the war he fought in. AND it's based on a true story.

It’s pro-war because because it’s sympathetic to the experience of a war veteran.

I liked it, though.

Trollheart · 01-26-2018, 05:07 PM

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk

It’s pro-war because because it’s sympathetic to the experience of a war veteran.

I liked it, though.

It's pro-war because the message in the movie is that the war was a mistake, it ruined people's lives, it was based on a lie and it destroyed the nationalist fervour of the young soldiers?

**Frownland** · 01-26-2018, 05:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Trollheart

It's pro-war because the message in the movie is that the war was a mistake, it ruined people's lives, it was based on a lie and it destroyed the nationalist fervour of the young soldiers?

It's pro war because it makes Vietnam seem like an exception.

OccultHawk · 01-26-2018, 05:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Trollheart

It's pro-war because the message in the movie is that the war was a mistake, it ruined people's lives, it was based on a lie and it destroyed the nationalist fervour of the young soldiers?

In order to hate war you have to hate veterans. I don’t need Ted Bundy to write memoirs about how raping and killing teenage girls ruined his life. Kovic didn’t earn the right to preach either. **** him and his war.

OccultHawk · 01-26-2018, 05:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

It's pro war because it makes Vietnam seem like an exception.

That’s a great point.

Trollheart · 01-26-2018, 05:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

It's pro war because it makes Vietnam seem like an exception.

If that was the case, I would agree but I don't see how that comes across in the movie. It's not like they said World War II was ok but Vietnam sucked. I think the message it put across was pretty universal and could be applied to any war, especially those that came after it.

And I guess technically WW II was different in that there wasn't that much of a choice. Had the Allies done nothing Hitler wasn't going to stop. The Vietnam war - and pretty much every other war since then - has really been more about ideology. WW2 was, too, to an extent, but it was more about territory and borders. I wonder what else you think could have been done to prevent WW2? If anything, I would say it was the exception. Not that war is ever justifiable, but when you're pushed into a corner, it's hard to see what else Britain, France and the rest could do other than declare war.

Trollheart · 01-26-2018, 05:20 PM

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk

In order to hate war you have to hate veterans. I don’t need Ted Bundy to write memoirs about how raping and killing teenage girls ruined his life. Kovic didn’t earn the right to preach either. **** him and his war.

You don't think that a man who went through that war, saw his buddies die, saw what the government was doing, came back and began to protest about it, tried to open the eyes of those still signing up to fight in a war of lies, had any right to do so? What would you prefer (given that there was a war: obviously, everyone would prefer there had been none and the US had kept its big interfering imperialist snout out of things, but given there was one) - that he had kept quiet, said nothing? You don't think that someone, seeing he had been wrong, that he had been lied to, should try to correct that in any way he could?