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Pet_Sounds 08-24-2019 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2074480)
That makes sense, I think.

Basically at the peak the ball is already set to move back towards the earth. So even though for an instant it isn't moving it will have a non zero velocity because at any given moment later it will have moved?

At the peak its velocity (change in position) is zero because, as you said, it's not moving. Its acceleration (change in velocity) is nonzero because the velocity is still changing (it's only zero for an instant).

Crash course in calculus. :p:

OccultHawk 08-24-2019 09:33 PM

Everything on earth is being pulled to the center of the earth same as a ball in transition from rising to falling so why isn’t everything at rest considered to have nonzero acceleration?

Pet_Sounds 08-24-2019 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky (Post 2074481)
Is there a describable difference between balanced and not balanced though?

When forces aren't balanced, something is or is about to accelerate. When forces are balanced, no acceleration occurs.

Pet_Sounds 08-24-2019 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2074483)
Everything on earth is being pulled to the center of the earth same as a ball in transition from rising to falling so why isn’t everything at rest considered to have nonzero acceleration?

The surface of the earth exerts a force upward that balances out gravity. No such force acts on a ball in midair that is about to plunge downward.

Newton's second law basically.

EDIT: Should we move this to the spam thread or something so it doesn't clog this thread up?

The Batlord 08-24-2019 09:39 PM

Like I'm basically asking if it's a difference in "philosophy" or if there's a measurable difference in equations. Like, is a thing that's not moving in mid-air because it's reached its zenith mathematically different from something that is sitting still simply because of gravity and air pressure that are working against each other but keeping said thing still?

The Batlord 08-24-2019 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds (Post 2074485)
EDIT: Should we move this to the spam thread or something so it doesn't clog this thread up?

I don't think anyone is worried about clogging the Your Day thread.

Pet_Sounds 08-24-2019 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky (Post 2074487)
Like I'm basically asking if it's a difference in "philosophy" or if there's a measurable difference in equations. Like, is a thing that's not moving in mid-air because it's reached its zenith mathematically different from something that is sitting still simply because of gravity and air pressure that are working against each other but keeping said thing still?

Yeah, there's a difference in equations. Calculus was invented basically for this question. You need an "open interval" (which can be arbitrarily small) of time around a given point to discuss instantaneous rate of change, and the difference comes down to the behaviour of the object in that open interval as it approaches the point you're interested in. In the case of the ball in mid-air, its motion changes immediately before and after the point in time at which its velocity is zero; the ball on the ground doesn't move at all.

Sorry I'm not explaining this very well, it's hard without math.

OccultHawk 08-24-2019 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky (Post 2074487)
Like I'm basically asking if it's a difference in "philosophy" or if there's a measurable difference in equations. Like, is a thing that's not moving in mid-air because it's reached its zenith mathematically different from something that is sitting still simply because of gravity and air pressure that are working against each other but keeping said thing still?

I think that’s a great question because it gets into why is there a different term for something just because the amount of time in that situation is negligible from a human perspective.

OccultHawk 08-24-2019 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds (Post 2074490)
Yeah, there's a difference in equations. Calculus was invented basically for this question. You need an "open interval" (which can be arbitrarily small) of time around a given point to discuss instantaneous rate of change, and the difference comes down to the behaviour of the object in that open interval as it approaches the point you're interested in. In the case of the ball in mid-air, its motion changes immediately before and after the point in time at which its velocity is zero; the ball on the ground doesn't move at all.

Sorry I'm not explaining this very well, it's hard without math.

But the way we understand time philosophically does seem to influence the way physicists describe the phenomenon.

Pet_Sounds 08-24-2019 09:58 PM

Time is what a clock measures.


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