Your Day - Music Banter Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge
Your Day Your Day
Register Blogging Today's Posts
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
Page 6330 of 7902 « First 5330583062306280632063286329 6330 6331633263406380643068307330 Last »
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-25-2019, 08:10 PM   #63291 (permalink)
Zum Henker Defätist!!
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 48,216
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwb View Post
If you're conceding that choices make a difference then it's fundamentally irrational to act as if you live in some deterministic paradigm. You're not confronting the implications of your concession.
Not really. You're not necessarily talking about making choices so much as just doing things. That's perfectly congruent with a deterministic universe.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
The Batlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:11 PM   #63292 (permalink)
jwb
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,403
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
then FURTHERMORE

your social class will determine how badly that poor financial decision hurts

quite honestly I would be fine, my mommy would send me money
in that case, why do you bother?
jwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:13 PM   #63293 (permalink)
Zum Henker Defätist!!
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 48,216
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwb View Post
in that case, why do you bother?
In a deterministic universe you bother because it's your nature to bother. If we're living in a deterministic universe then we're living in a society with a long line of bothering for no other reason than because it is in our nature to bother.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
The Batlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:16 PM   #63294 (permalink)
jwb
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,403
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug McClasky View Post
Not really. You're not necessarily talking about making choices so much as just doing things. That's perfectly congruent with a deterministic universe.
he already conceded the point specifically about making choices, as I said.

And even in a more abstract sense if you think we aren't in control of our choices for some philosophical reason, if you agree that for instance my choice to smoke crack vs not smoking crack will impact my life, you are agreeing that what I decide to do ultimately matters. Even if somehow my decision is predetermined. Which would render not only personal choice but political choice utterly irrelevant.
jwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:18 PM   #63295 (permalink)
jwb
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,403
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug McClasky View Post
In a deterministic universe you bother because it's your nature to bother. If we're living in a deterministic universe then we're living in a society with a long line of bothering for no other reason than because it is in our nature to bother.
if that's the case then that should be your answer to everything

Yet you guys rationalize most of your decisions via other means.
jwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:19 PM   #63296 (permalink)
Zum Henker Defätist!!
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 48,216
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwb View Post
he already conceded the point specifically about making choices, as I said.

And even in a more abstract sense if you think we aren't in control of our choices for some philosophical reason, if you agree that for instance my choice to smoke crack vs not smoking crack will impact my life, you are agreeing that what I decide to do ultimately matters. Even if somehow my decision is predetermined. Which would render not only personal choice but political choice utterly irrelevant.
If choice is irrelevant then it does not matter. And yeah I'm not really talking about the previous subject anymore. This is poised to be totes yet another circular discussion on compatibilist vs incompatibilist free will that's happened in the last few months.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
The Batlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:22 PM   #63297 (permalink)
jwb
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,403
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
what determines your ability to make a delayed gratification choice?

if everyone is capable, why is it that some people do, and others don't?
some are definitely more predisposed to than others. But ultimately it's the same reason some kill and some don't. Some steal and some don't. There's a complex set of mental states behind any given decision.
jwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:24 PM   #63298 (permalink)
jwb
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,403
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
what determines your ability to make a delayed gratification choice?

if everyone is capable, why is it that some people do, and others don't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
me, personally?

because of the way I was raised

asking anyone for help ever is like the most painful thing for me
so you don't feel that you could give up and lean on Mom, even if you wanted
jwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:26 PM   #63299 (permalink)
jwb
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,403
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug McClasky View Post
If choice is irrelevant then it does not matter. And yeah I'm not really talking about the previous subject anymore. This is poised to be totes yet another circular discussion on compatibilist vs incompatibilist free will that's happened in the last few months.
If choice is irrelevant than none of this matters. Not my thoughts on personal choice and not your thoughts on the system or political choice. We should all just shut up, roll over, and wait to die.
jwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:27 PM   #63300 (permalink)
jwb
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,403
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
well exactly
more disposed =/ determined

Choice is relevant even for the more disposed.
jwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 6330 of 7902 « First 5330583062306280632063286329 6330 6331633263406380643068307330 Last »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »


Terms & Privacy - Contact Us - Music Banter - Archive - Top

© 2003-2024 Advameg, Inc.