Music Banter - Your Day

It's out of my depths but I at least have a basic grasp of it mostly because I got curious on the science after HHbomberguy said the gender spectrum thing comes from an actually scientific article.

Just like I found out 60% of Russians wish the USSR never broke up after spooky scary commie said Russia never wanted to get rid of it even when they became disillusioned with the leadership. And as a man fed with American propaganda as my only understanding of the USSR my mind is blown.

Edit: It was actually higher too, but younger people that grew up in capitalist Russia oppose the USSR. Could be good old nostalgia but I don't think Germany has that same love for the Nazis.

OccultHawk

09-16-2020 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2135736)

being a class reductionist is...not smart

but what I'm actually saying is that people rarely have real economic positions, they have social positions

Actually people really have economic positions.

Quote:

It's out of my depths

Gender is a social construct with spectrums within spectrums and what’s social must be science. There may be thousands of ways to be male or female or both or neither or in between but the binary nature of sex and reproduction in humans is XX XY and all the attempts to murky that indisputable fact might as well be climate change denialists pointing to weather fluctuations. Science is complicated so there’s always going to be a way to justify what you want it to be but some things don’t need convolution. You don’t need science on your side to respect people’s gender roles. Science is limited by language and thought paradigm. Science shouldn’t dictate our sense of humanity. Science isn’t necessarily our friend.

Lucem Ferre

09-16-2020 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2135745)

Actually people really have economic positions.

Gender is a social construct with spectrums within spectrums and what’s social must be science. There may be thousands of ways to be male or female or both or neither or in between but the binary nature of sex and reproduction in humans is XX XY and all the attempts to murky that indisputable fact might as well be climate change denialists pointing to weather fluctuations. Science is complicated so there’s always going to be a way to justify what you want it to be but some things don’t need convolution. You don’t need science on your side to respect people’s gender roles. Science is limited by language and thought paradigm. Science shouldn’t dictate our sense of humanity. Science isn’t necessarily our friend.

I just gave evidence that sex isn't actually binary though...

OccultHawk

09-16-2020 01:00 AM

OK Good job you guys males and females don’t get together and make babies

I see it now

OccultHawk

09-16-2020 02:11 AM

I understand the difference between sex and gender.

What you’ll never get is that social constructs are biological. You do the bigoted disservice of reducing it to respecting pronouns. It’s very condescending and factually wrong.

If you want to start a fight where there is none have it with the several men and women inside your consciousness.

Quote:

if a woman is infertile, is she now not a woman?

What a mundane simplistic and meaningless question.

She’s still a woman. Great point. Men and women don’t make babies. I already threw in the towel. Men are women. Tell me nobody is saying that you transphobe.

OccultHawk

09-16-2020 03:55 AM

It’s transphobic of you to pretend to be their spokesperson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2135757)

u mad

Social constructs are biological? What do you even mean by that?

Oh god don’t go Casper again. There is NOTHING that can be experienced that isn’t biological. Until you understand this consider the discussion closed.

Quote:

It's not just out of humanity that you'd recognize trans as valid. It's logical.

OK Spock

OccultHawk

09-16-2020 04:07 AM

Closed up, Casper.

Psy-Fi

09-16-2020 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2135616)

lotta leftists are naive in thinking economic arguments don't matter

ftfy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2135623)

I have a theory that any capital L Libertarian who lives in an Austin flop house has a parent or two standing between them and homelessness. A lot of people who can still call their mommy might think pronouns > property. There’s no one on earth in such living quarters advocating for no safety net whatsoever unless they got another one.

jwb	09-16-2020 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2135623)

I have a theory that any capital L Libertarian who lives in an Austin flop house has a parent or two standing between them and homelessness. A lot of people who can still call their mommy might think pronouns > property. There’s no one on earth in such living quarters advocating for no safety net whatsoever unless they got another one.

Not that I'm siding with elph on the tranny route being the best way, but if you don't realize that a vast number of poor people indeed buy into the mantra of personal responsability etc that libertarians espouse then you just don't know that many poor people

I know it hurts to recognize but life doesn't map onto your ideology perfectly, and people especially are far from rational.

jwb	09-16-2020 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2135628)

whether they know it I think advocating for no safety net is not got nuthin to do with the deficit

nobody actually cares about nitty gritty **** like that

what (I think) is happening in their head is something like

safety net = nurture = womanly = dumb or silly

yeah... You're completely out of touch too lol

What they're thinking about is "I don't wanna have to pay for the next guy." If you try explaining they benefit disproportionately based on income... They aren't quite smart enough to understand that math.

Plus like Steinbeck says... The reason socialism never took off in America is because poor people in America see themselves not as an oppressed proletariat but temporarily embarrassed millionaires

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