Your Day

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I’d argue they never weren’t

If you're referring to the slavery of the average job, then that also applies to most smart people. But this is getting into too much unnecessary detail. Plain and simple I realise being unintelligent is a serious disadvantage, but dumb people have never been discriminated like black people were, not even close.

~~jwb~~ · 10-29-2020, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

I don't think anyone here would argue what you're saying about a merit-based system.
Regarding the worth thing: using stupidity as an insult just implies that it's something negative. I don't think that implies it makes someone worth less as a human being. For instance I think you're a deluded bigot about Muslims, which is definitely a negative thing, but I don't think you're worth less because of it. What does that even mean? People's worth shouldn't be measured in any way.
Saying that stupid people have had it harder than black people is just ridiculous to the point of being disrespectful. Wtf. Dumb people were never dehumanised to the extent of being made slaves. They were never lynched on trees. Seriously. That's exactly my point though (re:diswashing comment), why racial slurs are much worse than saying idiot: being less intelligent than average is a disadvantage, of course, but it's just not comparable (unless you really have a disability)

I think there's a difference between saying they're not equivalent and saying they're not comparable.

I agree with you racial slurs are far worse because of not only the history but the tangible affects of that history on the modern context. While stupid people were never enslaved as a group, if you get into the realm of actual disability, I'm sure they weren't treated any better than a slave. Probably were just left to die at birth. That just doesn't have the same impact on our modern culture that slavery did.

But they are comparable in that both rely on group stigmas and stereotypes. I think it's a bit disingenuous to say I see stupidity as a negative thing but it doesn't make you worth less as a person. Would you take the same approach if someone said I see a man who isn't masculine enough as a negative thing but it doesn't make him worth less as a person?

I can tell you want this sort of distinction to be easy to draw but I believe it's more complicated than you assume.

~~jwb~~ · 10-29-2020, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

I guess the moment you stop washing dishes for a living and start making more money your IQ magically raises.

It's not like we've ever had idiot politicians or idiot celebrities.

You realize this means nothing right? We're talking about averages. Statistics. It's not a 1 to 1 correlation between IQ and wealth, but IQ is a relevant variable in predicting wealth.

Finding exceptions to a general statistical trend is not an argument against said trend.

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I think there's a difference between saying they're not equivalent and saying they're not comparable.

I agree with you racial slurs are far worse because of not only the history but the tangible affects of that history on the modern context. While stupid people were never enslaved as a group, if you get into the realm of actual disability, I'm sure they weren't treated any better than a slave. Probably were just left to die at birth. That just doesn't have the same impact on our modern culture that slavery did.

That's exactly why I made that distinction about disability before.

Quote:

But they are comparable in that both rely on group stigmas and stereotypes. I think it's a bit disingenuous to say I see stupidity as a negative thing but it doesn't make you worth less as a person. Would you take the same approach if someone said I see a man who isn't masculine enough as a negative thing but it doesn't make him worth less as a person?

I can tell you want this sort of distinction to be easy to draw but I believe it's more complicated than you assume.

I actually think I would, if they meant the same thing as I do. It depends on what you mean by a person's worth though; I won't pretend I never look down on stupid people. I do agree with your general point, there isn't a clear line, it's more subtle than my posts here give credit for.

~~jwb~~ · 10-29-2020, 02:24 PM

Maybe I'm not understanding you exactly. Cause the way I used the f word was to emasculate a man who was probably already a basic run of the mill black southern homophobe. So I was attacking his masculinity because that's a point of pride to attack. How is it that's worse than calling him stupid if as you just said you view the two cases similarly?

Keep in mind, I actually do think it would've been less harmful to call him stupid but it also wouldn't have carried the same punch. I'm just curious because this seems contradictory to me.

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 02:49 PM

No you're right, there's no difference. The thing is purely that Hawk phrased it as considering someone less worthy, and I don't feel like that's accurate. If I look down on someone for some reason, does that mean I consider them less worthy as a human being? That seems a bit dramatic

OccultHawk · 10-29-2020, 02:52 PM

Quote:

If I look down on someone for some reason, does that mean I consider them less worthy as a human being?

lol

Yes. That’s exactly what looking down at someone means.

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

lol

Yes. That’s exactly what looking down at someone means.

If you define it like that then yes.
But is that really an accurate definition? Maybe this is exaggerated, but to me someone's worth sounds like the value of someone's life. You said so too I think: 'You throw the word stupid out there as an insult you’re saying that all stupid people are inherently worth less as human beings.' And I definitely don't think a dumb person's life is worth less than that of a smart person. In general I would never think that someone's life was worth less just because I happen to have a lower opinion of them.

The Batlord · 10-29-2020, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

jftr some of the most maligned people are those with lower IQ’s or less education

others are socially awkward

perhaps you fall outside typical standards of beauty

maybe you can’t write very well

maybe you’re fat

maybe you’re cruel even

Keep my name out yo mouth, bitch.

Lucem Ferre · 10-29-2020, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

You realize this means nothing right? We're talking about averages. Statistics. It's not a 1 to 1 correlation between IQ and wealth, but IQ is a relevant variable in predicting wealth.

Finding exceptions to a general statistical trend is not an argument against said trend.

Not relevant enough to warrant the idea that having a lower IQ will prevent you from gaining wealth like it was implied.

That goes back to the fact that IQ tests really just measure who's more motivated to succeed more than intelligence but you don't like that statistic.

Outside of disabilities, which don't always mean you're dumb, I think intelligence is way too static of a concept to really make this kind of statement.

In my personal experience the average dish washer has no less or more cognitive ability than more successful people we're just less educated.

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10-29-2020, 02:24 PM	#70605 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Maybe I'm not understanding you exactly. Cause the way I used the f word was to emasculate a man who was probably already a basic run of the mill black southern homophobe. So I was attacking his masculinity because that's a point of pride to attack. How is it that's worse than calling him stupid if as you just said you view the two cases similarly? Keep in mind, I actually do think it would've been less harmful to call him stupid but it also wouldn't have carried the same punch. I'm just curious because this seems contradictory to me.