I don't remember anyone talking about native Americans owning land, or putting them on a moral pedestal

Batlord is who I am referring to in this particular case.

Fine, I don't remember the Batlord talking about native Americans owning land, or putting them on a moral pedestal

He implied a few pages ago that my observations about smallpox was just me wanting to "make it okay to sit on this land and not feel guilty". Which implies that somehow this land at any point belongs to humans at all, and none of it does.

He's used the word guilt a few times, but that use of it comes off like saying that black Americans today whose families come from Ghana should just whip themselves every day and abandon their present lifestyles because their ancestors who lived in the Ghana Empire did things like subjugate their neighbors into slavery, and then subsequently contribute to the Arabs and the Portuguese in their establishment the modern slave trade. Sure, they can do that - but you won't get anyone to agree with it and it isn't useful or relevant.

The one point that I agree with Batlord and OH about is that if you really want to change America right now and have the people living today pay their dues...burn it all down. That would be justice for the Native Americans in accordance with their worldviews. And with the way things are going right now, that may just happen. I'm fine with it all burning down of course...but I'm not going to speak for Native Americans living today or all white people, since they likely have a wide range of opinions on the subject. :laughing:

What he said does not imply any of those things, that's just your Speculative Nature. For instance, one can talk about feeling guilty for sitting on land won by massacre, regardless of whom it belonged too. And there is a difference between being properly aware of history and needlessly torturing yourself over it.

What?

I've seen enough Shapiro, Peterson and Sargon to see through the dishonest semantics games designed to paint ****ty ideas as rational or innocent.

Read 'em and weep.

I was talking about you, Adolph.

Nobody did any needless self-torturing during that discussion, except by taking part in it
Don't go there.