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Old 03-18-2021, 07:58 PM   #74451 (permalink)
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you ever think about how weird Uber/Lyft is

like we all just get in strangers cars now
And the company exists to develop self driving cars that put their workforce out on the streets but no one cares because workers are pawns for the magnificence of "geniuses" who will take the middle class to a next level of existence.
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There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 03-18-2021, 08:07 PM   #74452 (permalink)
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yeah but it's not like I'm calling a cab

and I always use self-checkout
What does that have to do with anything?
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 03-18-2021, 08:39 PM   #74453 (permalink)
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The future of real communism lies in full automation. Only when all people are liberated from labor will there be a chance for true equality!

I read that sometimes somewhere and it seems like it could work. :/
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Old 03-18-2021, 09:21 PM   #74454 (permalink)
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but enough people get out out of work and you've got troops for a revolution
More like an army of docile, fat, porn-consuming, netflix binging couch potatoes. Good luck with the revolution.
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Old 03-18-2021, 09:22 PM   #74455 (permalink)
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There's plenty of people out of work from industrial jobs and it didn't tip the world to revolution. It simply increased alienation which was a boon to the owning class. Alienation is a thing to be feared by the working class but apparently not by the owning class.

Automation is also a thing to be feared by the working class but which the ruling class greets again and again with indifference because so long as they aren't literally starving it doesn't matter what the working class don't like.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 03-18-2021, 09:34 PM   #74456 (permalink)
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There's plenty of people out of work from industrial jobs and it didn't tip the world to revolution. It simply increased alienation which was a boon to the owning class. Alienation is a thing to be feared by the working class but apparently not by the owning class.

Automation is also a thing to be feared by the working class but which the ruling class greets again and again with indifference because so long as they aren't literally starving it doesn't matter what the working class don't like.
Alienation is obviously a counterweight to any kind of revolution. Revolutions require coordination and a focus and unified social purpose. Honestly - the more division the ruling class can instill in the lower classes, the better (for them). As long as they (lower class) fight amongst each other, they (ruling/owning class) can continue lining their pockets without true opposition.

Automation without some kind of UBI or mass re-education program(s) will spell disaster. Machines do not require maternity leave or health care insurance, which is obviously why the owning class is very much in favor of it. Over the long run, it increases their profit margins and decreases their risks.
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Old 03-18-2021, 09:41 PM   #74457 (permalink)
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Yeah but in the (distant) future, everyone (or no one) will own the means of production, which will be fully automated. That's communism baby!
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Old 03-18-2021, 09:45 PM   #74458 (permalink)
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Alienation is obviously a counterweight to any kind of revolution. Revolutions require coordination and a focus and unified social purpose. Honestly - the more division the ruling class can instill in the lower classes, the better (for them). As long as they (lower class) fight amongst each other, they (ruling/owning class) can continue lining their pockets without true opposition.

Automation without some kind of UBI or mass re-education program(s) will spell disaster. Machines do not require maternity leave or health care insurance, which is obviously why the owning class is very much in favor of it. Over the long run, it increases their profit margins and decreases their risks.
Precisely. So you can either side with the owning class and abandon morality the same as any slave driver with a whip as is easy, or you can figure out what it means to be a good person in opposition to that. Which is obviously hard and complicated.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 03-18-2021, 09:49 PM   #74459 (permalink)
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Yeah but in the (distant) future, everyone (or no one) will own the means of production, which will be fully automated. That's communism baby!
How will no one own the means of production? You think there's a future in which all these automated machines/factories take care of themselves? You think they'll become self-sufficient and self-serving?

If so, we are no longer in a discussion about political philosophy, but rather in a discussion about survival between man and machine. An automated dystopia.
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Old 03-18-2021, 10:09 PM   #74460 (permalink)
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How will no one own the means of production? You think there's a future in which all these automated machines/factories take care of themselves? You think they'll become self-sufficient and self-serving?

If so, we are no longer in a discussion about political philosophy, but rather in a discussion about survival between man and machine. An automated dystopia.
Yes! And I'm not convinced it will ever come to some kind of conflict, it hasn't so far so no reason to believe it will. We create machines to do a specific job, and that's their limitation. So, I don't see a dystopia but a utopia.
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