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Old 09-15-2020, 09:07 PM   #74701 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OccultHawk View Post

It’s pretty easy to call others names like class reductionist and claim the latest gender litmus test outweighs food stamps and minimum wages when the threat of homelessness isn’t pressing on you like the barrel of a gun.
being a class reductionist is...not smart

but what I'm actually saying is that people rarely have real economic positions, they have social positions
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:06 AM   #74702 (permalink)
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being a class reductionist is...not smart

but what I'm actually saying is that people rarely have real economic positions, they have social positions
Actually people really have economic positions.

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It's out of my depths
Gender is a social construct with spectrums within spectrums and what’s social must be science. There may be thousands of ways to be male or female or both or neither or in between but the binary nature of sex and reproduction in humans is XX XY and all the attempts to murky that indisputable fact might as well be climate change denialists pointing to weather fluctuations. Science is complicated so there’s always going to be a way to justify what you want it to be but some things don’t need convolution. You don’t need science on your side to respect people’s gender roles. Science is limited by language and thought paradigm. Science shouldn’t dictate our sense of humanity. Science isn’t necessarily our friend.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:37 AM   #74703 (permalink)
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nobody is trying to murky sex (biological)

but it's simply not enough to just respect someone's pronoun for this conversation

not just because it's offensive not to(recognize trans as valid), but because it's incorrect in every possible way

super condescending yet factually wrong to take a "well sure I'll be nice and humor them" position
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:45 AM   #74704 (permalink)
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Actually people really have economic positions.
if you press most people hard enough on them what you're going to get is a social justification
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:58 AM   #74705 (permalink)
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Actually people really have economic positions.



Gender is a social construct with spectrums within spectrums and what’s social must be science. There may be thousands of ways to be male or female or both or neither or in between but the binary nature of sex and reproduction in humans is XX XY and all the attempts to murky that indisputable fact might as well be climate change denialists pointing to weather fluctuations. Science is complicated so there’s always going to be a way to justify what you want it to be but some things don’t need convolution. You don’t need science on your side to respect people’s gender roles. Science is limited by language and thought paradigm. Science shouldn’t dictate our sense of humanity. Science isn’t necessarily our friend.

I just gave evidence that sex isn't actually binary though...
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:00 AM   #74706 (permalink)
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OK Good job you guys males and females don’t get together and make babies

I see it now
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:13 AM   #74707 (permalink)
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this is the same brick wall I hit with that guy

confusing gender (which is social and performative) and sex (which is biological)

I understood this from the first time it was explained to me, it's super simple

if a woman is infertile, is she now not a woman?
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Old 09-16-2020, 02:11 AM   #74708 (permalink)
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I understand the difference between sex and gender.

What you’ll never get is that social constructs are biological. You do the bigoted disservice of reducing it to respecting pronouns. It’s very condescending and factually wrong.

If you want to start a fight where there is none have it with the several men and women inside your consciousness.

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if a woman is infertile, is she now not a woman?
What a mundane simplistic and meaningless question.

She’s still a woman. Great point. Men and women don’t make babies. I already threw in the towel. Men are women. Tell me nobody is saying that you transphobe.
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:15 AM   #74709 (permalink)
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u mad

Social constructs are biological? What do you even mean by that?
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Last edited by elphenor; 09-16-2020 at 03:29 AM. Reason: trying to be more charitable
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:34 AM   #74710 (permalink)
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To clarify:

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the binary nature of sex and reproduction in humans is XX XY and all the attempts to murky that indisputable fact might as well be climate change denialists pointing to weather fluctuations. Science is complicated so there’s always going to be a way to justify what you want it to be but some things don’t need convolution. You don’t need science on your side to respect people’s gender roles. Science is limited by language and thought paradigm. Science shouldn’t dictate our sense of humanity. Science isn’t necessarily our friend.
This implied weird **** to me, and positions you might not even hold.

It's not just out of humanity that you'd recognize trans as valid. It's logical.
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