On a different subject, I’m wondering if anyone knows of a product that functions as an MP3 player but that does not have internet capabilities. I’m thinking something along the lines of the original ipod touch - shopping for Christmas gifts for my guys and some of them are not allowed internet access but having access to music could be therapeutic. Thanks in advance.

Tons of MP3 players on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Player-Memory...98&sr=8-4&th=1

I knowwww but I only trust personal experience, the stars and reviews mean nothing to me.

The old Creative Labs Zen X-Fi is great, and though it has LAN capability that has to be setup (and I don't think it ever works anyway) so no internet there. Great sound and small and cool-looking. I also found it cool how you could just drag and drop files/folders of music onto it, no pissing about with bloody itunes. Quite old but you should be able to pick one up cheap.

Hmm. Right. Apparently ebay didn't get the memo. But it's not a terrible price. I think I paid about 230 for mine when I got it, way way back in, I don't know, 2004 or something?

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/304637589553...Bk9SR8ad6qCiYQ

Sansa clip is nice too. Very basic and very small. Same idea, drag and drop files.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/304734273904...Bk9SR8bD_KCiYQ

I had a Sansa Clip. It did it's thing as expected. Finding people who can recommend a good MP3 player is probably harder than finding a good MP3 player. Here's a control group model for something on the high end though:

https://www.sony.com/ng/electronics/walkman/nw-wm1zm2

lol

You're welcome.

so the only moral way to abandon your kids is to kill yourself? Lol.

Also, whether anyone demands it of you, I feel like you should still feel an obligation to the people around you.

Obviously someone who is in enough pain can say **** it and bail out even if they do feel that obligation. I'm not saying that makes them evil but yes I think it's not morally neutral depending on the circumstances and who you have around you to worry about.

Maybe the least selfish approach is to get your loved ones involved in your death, to drive them to the point where they try to murder you and you just let them do it. That way it's all consensual, no one feels left out, and you get to sneak one in at the end when they have to go through the annoying ordeal of cleaning up your body.

That's more honorable than just killing yourself.

Plus it's a warrior's death, so you get to go to Valhalla.