What TV shows are people watching?

djchameleon · 05-04-2017, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiomara

Really? I found it incredibly unrealistic and ham-fisted in pretty much every way (though granted I only watched four episodes). Super cringey dialogue, too. Like an after-school special combined with a terrible indie film starring your standard, garden-variety broody nerd boy and sad quirky girl.
Most shows do an absolutely terrible job at portraying suicidal people and mental illness, though, particularly if they're marketed toward teenagers. An actual suicidal person is generally not going to have the energy to create an elaborate scavenger hunt + record an incredibly long, melodramatic monologue unless perhaps they're in the midst of a manic episode. Based on what I've gathered from both the show and the book it's based on, it just perpetuates the warped notions that the general public tends to have about the inner lives of suicidal people and Troubled Teens™. (Not that I expect a show or movie starring fictional characters to be 100% realistic, but I can't deal with bad, tedious writing on top of that.)

This analysis is so far off the mark that I don't even know where to begin deconstructing it, especially for someone that gave up four episodes in.

You don't get to see how someone's individual trauma ends up affecting the mental state of those around them. They showcase various different ways this occurs while constantly jumping back and forth from past to present. This show kept me engaged and I actually couldn't watch it in the background like I do with most other shoes because I would end up slightly lost or miss and important detail.

If you don't feel like watching the entire series at least watch the after the series special they have. This show in no way glorifies suicide down to the very act being shown in a realistic way and not like an artistic version of the act that I thought they might have done.

Key · 05-04-2017, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

This analysis is so far off the mark that I don't even know where to begin deconstructing it, especially for someone that gave up four episodes in.

You don't get to see how someone's individual trauma ends up affecting the mental state of those around them. They showcase various different ways this occurs while constantly jumping back and forth from past to present. This show kept me engaged and I actually couldn't watch it in the background like I do with most other shoes because I would end up slightly lost or miss and important detail.

If you don't feel like watching the entire series at least watch the after the series special they have. This show in no way glorifies suicide down to the very act being shown in a realistic way and not like an artistic version of the act that I thought they might have done.

I watched a few more episodes just to see if I'd enjoy it, because when I heard about it / saw one episode, I was already thrown off of it. That opinion did not change and I didn't bother. I don't think you actually understand why it is such a horrible representation of the themes within.

And honestly, I won't even try to convince you because it's impossible to.

duga · 05-04-2017, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiomara

Really? I found it incredibly unrealistic and ham-fisted in pretty much every way (though granted I only watched four episodes). Super cringey dialogue, too. Like an after-school special combined with a terrible indie film starring your standard, garden-variety broody nerd boy and sad quirky girl.
Most shows do an absolutely terrible job at portraying suicidal people and mental illness, though, particularly if they're marketed toward teenagers. An actual suicidal person is generally not going to have the energy to create an elaborate scavenger hunt + record an incredibly long, melodramatic monologue unless perhaps they're in the midst of a manic episode. Based on what I've gathered from both the show and the book it's based on, it just perpetuates the warped notions that the general public tends to have about the inner lives of suicidal people and Troubled Teens™. (Not that I expect a show or movie starring fictional characters to be 100% realistic, but I can't deal with bad, tedious writing on top of that.)

Do you watch other shows/movies about teenagers? I'd say it's one of the more realistic depictions out there. Of course the writers still have to deal in archetypes to engage people, but it seemed genuine. And to expect that the story will remain a 100% grounded is just unrealistic. It is a show, after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

This analysis is so far off the mark that I don't even know where to begin deconstructing it, especially for someone that gave up four episodes in.

You don't get to see how someone's individual trauma ends up affecting the mental state of those around them. They showcase various different ways this occurs while constantly jumping back and forth from past to present. This show kept me engaged and I actually couldn't watch it in the background like I do with most other shoes because I would end up slightly lost or miss and important detail.

If you don't feel like watching the entire series at least watch the after the series special they have. This show in no way glorifies suicide down to the very act being shown in a realistic way and not like an artistic version of the act that I thought they might have done.

I agree. There is so much going on and the show can be looked at from so many angles, I don't know where to start. The show made no judgment... All of that was left to the viewer, which is why I think so many people are uncomfortable with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiiii

I watched a few more episodes just to see if I'd enjoy it, because when I heard about it / saw one episode, I was already thrown off of it. That opinion did not change and I didn't bother. I don't think you actually understand why it is such a horrible representation of the themes within.

And honestly, I won't even try to convince you because it's impossible to.

Have you gone through something yourself? I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious. The way you talk about it, it seems you have a personal experience different than what was depicted on the show so it didn't click with you.

I don't think they were trying to show a general depiction of this issue, just a fictionalized account of one person. The broader themes apply to everyone, though. There's a reason the show has hit a nerve with people.

Key · 05-04-2017, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

Have you gone through something yourself? I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious. The way you talk about it, it seems you have a personal experience different than what was depicted on the show so it didn't click with you.

I don't think they were trying to show a general depiction of this issue, just a fictionalized account of one person. The broader themes apply to everyone, though. There's a reason the show has hit a nerve with people.

I've gone through plenty to have a completely different perspective of what is shown on the show. To me, these types of shows can go one of two ways. 1: it really show the deep insecurities of certain people that leads them to such things. the way their brain works and how they feel physically within themselves. and 2: it does a horrible job at understanding the themes within the themes, as opposed to just putting a blanket term on it, as this show seems to do. You can't just suddenly focus on suicide and consider it a tv show about suicide. That's not how it works.

I'm not going to sit here and try to outline every single thing that has happened in my life, because frankly I don't have the patience to get into it. I've talked a lot about it in my personal journal. But yes, things have happened to me that have had an ever lasting different perspective on the world.

When a show is trying to depict depression, suicide, and the like, the last thing you want to do is market it to people that have no idea what those terms even mean. You can lay anything you want on it. A sappy soundtrack, a good cast, and even good directing, but there's so many ways it can be done wrong, and 13 Reasons Why did it completely wrong.

Key · 05-04-2017, 07:36 PM

also duga, you basically said it yourself "it's just a show." which is precisely the problem. when you're dealing with suicide, you don't want it to be showcased by something as simply termed as "just a show." that basically tells me that you think "suicide is something you can market as long as it's a tv show."

duga · 05-04-2017, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiiii

also duga, you basically said it yourself "it's just a show." which is precisely the problem. when you're dealing with suicide, you don't want it to be showcased by something as simply termed as "just a show." that basically tells me that you think "suicide is something you can market as long as it's a tv show."

I can certainly respect your perspective and opinion of the show, but I disagree with this statement. People need to be made aware of how their actions can affect other people and try to think of these types of situations from a different perspective. For most people, couching the topic in the safe space of a movie or TV show is the only way they can confront it. The show may not have rung true for you, but I've read plenty of reviews and blogs online that tell me it struck a familiar chord with a lot of people.

Key · 05-04-2017, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

I can certainly respect your perspective and opinion of the show, but I disagree with this statement. People need to be made aware of how their actions can affect other people and try to think of these types of situations from a different perspective. For most people, couching the topic in the safe space of a movie or TV show is the only way they can confront it. The show may not have rung true for you, but I've read plenty of reviews and blogs online that tell me it struck a familiar chord with a lot of people.

But that's absolutely the entire problem. If we stick with the same notion that it needs to be played off so that people can understand it by stripping the very theme of everything it truly is, and only show the after effects, you're not going to get anywhere. TV show directors are far too afraid to let people into the deeper aspects of depression and suicide because they know for a fact that most of the world finds it to be something no more than the person simply complaining about their emotions. A TV show about it isn't going to change people's minds especially if that TV show is meant for teenagers. What's actually going to help is when people can stop feeling victimized for being depressed and having thoughts of suicide. You talk about people understanding, yet you use one of the few examples that completely combats your own point.

If you want a truly good look into depression, don't watch a TV show that caters to the marketing of it. Speak to someone in person and get their perspective. I bet your perspective will change. Also, if you've never dealt with depression to the point that you want to kill yourself, you can't say the TV show does a good job at portraying it. It doesn't.

duga · 05-04-2017, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiiii

But that's absolutely the entire problem. If we stick with the same notion that it needs to be played off so that people can understand it by stripping the very theme of everything it truly is, and only show the after effects, you're not going to get anywhere. TV show directors are far too afraid to let people into the deeper aspects of depression and suicide because they know for a fact that most of the world finds it to be something no more than the person simply complaining about their emotions. A TV show about it isn't going to change people's minds especially if that TV show is meant for teenagers. What's actually going to help is when people can stop feeling victimized for being depressed and having thoughts of suicide. You talk about people understanding, yet you use one of the few examples that completely combats your own point.

If you want a truly good look into depression, don't watch a TV show that caters to the marketing of it. Speak to someone in person and get their perspective. I bet your perspective will change. Also, if you've never dealt with depression to the point that you want to kill yourself, you can't say the TV show does a good job at portraying it. It doesn't.

Well, all I can say about that is you don't know my experiences. I've dealt with things in my life and I could relate to a lot of what was going on in the show. I don't think the point of the show was to delve into the mind of someone who is depressed but to get people to see that their actions have consequences. You can't dump reality on people who aren't ready for it, you need to ease them into it. And this show does that.

Key · 05-04-2017, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

Well, all I can say about that is you don't know my experiences. I've dealt with things in my life and I could relate to a lot of what was going on in the show. I don't think the point of the show was to delve into the mind of someone who is depressed but to get people to see that their actions have consequences. You can't dump reality on people who aren't ready for it, you need to ease them into it. And this show does that.

The bolded proves my entire point though. If you're going to make a TV show about depression and not focus on the intensities and personal details of depression, don't ****ing bother. All it's doing is marketing to those that "believe they have depression" and not really showing the actual issues that come along with it. Which like I said before is putting a big blanket on the term altogether.

That's perfectly fine that you've had your own experiences and I'm not saying your perspective is wrong. But that also doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid. You guys couldn't have been quicker to jump on the wagon of debating with those that disagree with the show and how the story is told. It's not seen the same way by everyone.

duga · 05-04-2017, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiiii

The bolded proves my entire point though. If you're going to make a TV show about depression and not focus on the intensities and personal details of depression, don't ****ing bother. All it's doing is marketing to those that "believe they have depression" and not really showing the actual issues that come along with it. Which like I said before is putting a big blanket on the term altogether.

That's perfectly fine that you've had your own experiences and I'm not saying your perspective is wrong. But that also doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid. You guys couldn't have been quicker to jump on the wagon of debating with those that disagree with the show and how the story is told. It's not seen the same way by everyone.

I'm definitely not saying your opinion isn't valid. In fact, I'm interested in your perspective, which is why I'm discussing it. I think our differing opinions are a good example of how you can look at this show from a lot of different angles. I do think, though, if your opinion is only based on a few episodes you don't have the whole picture. It's really hard to see how she gets all the way to contemplating suicide based on the first 4 episodes. I would have to say the intensity of the second half of the season and the traumas Hannah goes through... I'm not sure I would want young teenagers to watch it. I'm interested what your opinion would be of the whole season.

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05-04-2017, 07:36 PM	#5325 (permalink)
Key . Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 13,153	also duga, you basically said it yourself "it's just a show." which is precisely the problem. when you're dealing with suicide, you don't want it to be showcased by something as simply termed as "just a show." that basically tells me that you think "suicide is something you can market as long as it's a tv show."