Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire) The Fantasy Thread

[James]

Originally Posted by tore

... Aargh. Spoiler tags. Use'em, man!

Oops, sorry! I'm not used to this advanced technology!

[RVCA]

So I finally cracked this thread open now that I've finished the fifth book and don't have to worry about spoilers. Interesting stuff, especially the theory behind Jon Snow that the Monkey brought up. What complicates this theory, however, is how Jon

Spoiler for spoiler for all books:

gets stabbed at least four times at the end of Dance with Dragons. I find it hard to believe he will survive, given Martin's penchant for bathing in a pool of his readers' tears. However, I would not be surprised if Snow did survive the attack because Martin has also really blurred the line between life and death in the fourth and fifth books, what with The Hound's ambiguous state of life, Lady Catelyn's resurrection, Brienne's resurrection(?), etc. It's almost as if he's afraid to permanently off anyone any more.

All in all, I think what I like about the series is how real all of the characters are. I love the fact that each book presents a first person narrative from a dozen+ sources, each with a different perspective on the events of the series. As has already been mentioned in this thread, you get to see characters like Jaime and Arya evolve, and it makes it hard to really like or dislike any one character for a certain reason because they all have faults, transgressions, strengths, and weaknesses. (Aside from the Boltons and the Freys... fecking ****s) I feel that Martin does an excellent job of prying open the inner workings of each character he creates.

Also, I must say that Sansa and Theon have really become Martin's punching bags and I feel really awful for what is happening to both of them. I don't feel that either of them deserve their fate as it stands at the end of aDwD, especially not Theon.

[LoathsomePete]

Originally Posted by RVCA

So I finally cracked this thread open now that I've finished the fifth book and don't have to worry about spoilers. Interesting stuff, especially the theory behind Jon Snow that the Monkey brought up. What complicates this theory, however, is how Jon

Spoiler for spoiler for all books:

gets stabbed at least four times at the end of Dance with Dragons. I find it hard to believe he will survive, given Martin's penchant for bathing in a pool of his readers' tears. However, I would not be surprised if Snow did survive the attack because Martin has also really blurred the line between life and death in the fourth and fifth books, what with The Hound's ambiguous state of life, Lady Catelyn's resurrection, Brienne's resurrection(?), etc. It's almost as if he's afraid to permanently off anyone any more.

All in all, I think what I like about the series is how real all of the characters are. I love the fact that each book presents a first person narrative from a dozen+ sources, each with a different perspective on the events of the series. As has already been mentioned in this thread, you get to see characters like Jaime and Arya evolve, and it makes it hard to really like or dislike any one character for a certain reason because they all have faults, transgressions, strengths, and weaknesses. (Aside from the Boltons and the Freys... fecking ****s) I feel that Martin does an excellent job of prying open the inner workings of each character he creates.

Also, I must say that Sansa and Theon have really become Martin's punching bags and I feel really awful for what is happening to both of them. I don't feel that either of them deserve their fate as it stands at the end of aDwD, especially not Theon.

Seeing as how you're the only other member on here (I think) who has read all five books I'm going to put everything in spoiler tags.

Spoiler for spoilers:

I don't think Jon is dead, there are two popular theories right now. One says that he "warged" out of his body and into Ghost just before he was stabbed so while his physical body may be destroyed he will jump back into somebody else. The other theory is that it actually wasn't Jon that was stabbed, but one of the prisoners he took made up to look like him like what Melisandre did with Rattleshirt and Mance Rayder. Personally I'm hoping for the second one because it will be much easier to prove that he's actually the bastard of Rheagar Targaryian and Lyanna Stark.

As to some of the other characters, I think the Hound is still alive, having shed that part of his personality after his brush with death. He has unfinished business to settle with his brother, now under the guise of "Ser Robert Strong" or so say the rumors. As to Brienne's death, I don't think she died, what I think she did was say she would give up Jaime Lannister to Lady Stoneheart who is keeping Podrick Payne as collateral. I think the events of the Red Wedding really upset a lot of readers and it made Martin a little bit more hesitant to kill off major characters all willy nilly. While it was one of the major aspects that made his books stand out amongst other fantasy series' it also made them incredibly hard to read when characters you've grown fond of bite the dust.

I also have to agree with you about Sansa and Theon, while I've never particularly fond of either character, the punishment bestowed upon both is really unfair to them. You think at the end of A Storm of Swords that Sansa finally leaving King's Landing and going to the Eyrie would be the start of something a bit more positive for her character, but then almost being killed by Lysa and then having to endure this psychological torment from Littlefinger is just sad. Both the physical and psychological torment Theon has experienced by the hands of Ramsay Bolton is also quite horrific, almost to the point where I had to stop reading his chapters.

[The Monkey]

Originally Posted by RVCA

So I finally cracked this thread open now that I've finished the fifth book and don't have to worry about spoilers. Interesting stuff, especially the theory behind Jon Snow that the Monkey brought up. What complicates this theory, however, is how Jon

Spoiler for spoiler for all books:

gets stabbed at least four times at the end of Dance with Dragons. I find it hard to believe he will survive, given Martin's penchant for bathing in a pool of his readers' tears. However, I would not be surprised if Snow did survive the attack because Martin has also really blurred the line between life and death in the fourth and fifth books, what with The Hound's ambiguous state of life, Lady Catelyn's resurrection, Brienne's resurrection(?), etc. It's almost as if he's afraid to permanently off anyone any more.

Spoiler for spoiler for all books:

I doubt Jon is dead. For one thing, he was "killed" in his own POV, which so far in the series means that you're not really dead. It's only if another POV witnesses your death that you are really dead.

Case in point: Davos during the Battle of Blackwater, Tyrion during the Blackwater, Catelyn at the Red Wedding, Arya outside the Red Wedding, Brienne at the Inn at the Crossroads, Theon during the sack of Winterfell.

[NSW]

I never read the books, so you book nerds please excuse me for asking...can Joffrey just get mauled by direwolves already? What kind of 13 year old boy doesn't get a stiffy from watching two hot chicks kissing, and instead makes one beat the hell out of the other one? What a sick little ****.

Oh, and I'm very confused by Sansa now. I don't know whether to hate her or feel sorry for her. I'm sure she's traumatized though, and I'm hoping she has some devious plan in mind for getting back at the Lannisters.

[LoathsomePete]

Originally Posted by nonsubmissivewife

I never read the books, so you book nerds please excuse me for asking...can Joffrey just get mauled by direwolves already? What kind of 13 year old boy doesn't get a stiffy from watching two hot chicks kissing, and instead makes one beat the hell out of the other one? What a sick little ****.

Oh, and I'm very confused by Sansa now. I don't know whether to hate her or feel sorry for her. I'm sure she's traumatized though, and I'm hoping she has some devious plan in mind for getting back at the Lannisters.

I really don't want to spoil anything but rest assured that he gets his in the end, but sadly so do characters you also have grown fond of.

As far as Sansa goes, hating her might be a little extreme but it's pretty understandable to be annoyed with her. She really doesn't see any significant character changes until the 4th book sadly, which leaves her chapters as the least interesting and most skipped for the first three books. I really hope Martin makes her a more engaging character for the last two books, but she's going to have some fierce competition with Arya.


Pertaining to last night's episode, I thought it was perhaps the best in the entire series so far. I loved watching Robb get completely told off by the field nurse lady who will become his love interest. She looks far more interesting than the girl he marries in the novel. I thought it was really nice to get a little bit of insight into Joffrey's sexual deviancy that only gets briefly touched upon in the book, which is a little weird considering Martin is not shy about going into the details and exploits of other characters. It's also further proof to his sociopathic behavior, that often gets shrugged off as the extremes of a spoiled brat, who instead of smacking two toy soldiers together opts to use real men. I also really liked what they did with the Qarth scene, particularly the little in-joke with the pronunciation of the city and the 13's hesitance to let Danaery's enter. I'm also happy that they shied away from the book's description of the Qarthians as having pale milky skin and have added some ethnicity to the cast.

I'm also intrigued by the changes to Arya's story arc this season, they seem to be changing up who she serves as cupbearer for, as in the book it isn't Tywin Lannister. Not really a bad thing but it does have me wondering if a somewhat major event is going to happen or not, and if it does how they're going to change it.

[PoorOldPo]

yeah, it is a long book.

[Sansa Stark]

I spoilt myself on a lot of things, but I see why everyone likes Jaime in the books

[RVCA]

Those are all good speculations Pete, and I hope you're right about them.

On the whole, I think A Dance with Dragons was a MUCH better read than A Feast for Crows, though neither were better than the first three novels in the series.

What do you think the chances are that Jon and Daenerys end up ruling Westeros together? Lol

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by LoathsomePete

God I hope so... I really hope this doesn't turn into another Wheel of Time/ Robert Jordan thing where he ends up dying before his series is finished. I don't think the fans would ever forgive him, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they did some kind of magic ceremony to conjure up his spirit and then enslave it and force it to finish the story. Still if the last two releases are any indication, I'd say we're at best 4-years away from The Winds of Winter being released, and at worst 6-years :/

I'm actually reading Wheel of Time at the moment, about halfway through the first book and really can't decide whether I think its good or just average. I like the similiarities it has to LOTR in terms of history and characters and races etc Sauron/Shaitan Orcs/Trollocs which makes it a great read for avid LOTR fans which I am, but on the other hand its very slow moving and the main characters are quite boring (unlike a Song of Ice and Fire) but the character are slowly starting to diversify a bit and I bought the first three books so will read them all. I know Brandon Sanderson is finishing the series, I've no idea what he's like as a fantasy writer, but know he has his own series which I've pencilled in to read sometime soon.

Originally Posted by RVCA

Those are all good speculations Pete, and I hope you're right about them.

On the whole, I think A Dance with Dragons was a MUCH better read than A Feast for Crows, though neither were better than the first three novels in the series.

I really liked a Feast For Crows, the style of the book was different and I think its important in any series to mix things up a bit.